the myth of the 'ethical vegan'

is the title of a pretty good article a friend of mine shared on another site. it raises some interesting points and i am hoping it gets a good discussion going between people of all food preferences.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-myth-of-...inglepage=true

[Monolithia]

Honestly, the article is pretty weak and it only brings up one ethical reason for vegansim. Yes, animals die as a result of all farming, but death isn't the only issue. He mentioned "less death and suffering" but only argued against the "death" part. Even most "free range" animals live in appalling conditions. Next time you're driving past a field of cows, take a look at what they're living with or, more importantly, what they aren't living with. Most farm animals that live outside have no access to shelter via trees/wooded areas and aren't brought in during heavy rain or storms. Then there are penned animals, living in such cramped conditions they can barely turn around (if at all) and, for social animals like pigs, being denied contact with other pigs is essentially cruelty in itself. Its very easy to go "SEE, animals die anyway, SEE! Hypocrites!" but, honestly, there's alot more to it than that.

I'm not a vegan, hell, I'm not even really a vegetarian (though I draw the line at pork, pig farming is inhumane on so many levels) but I totally understand where they're coming from.

Originally Posted by Monolithia

Honestly, the article is pretty weak and it only brings up one ethical reason for vegansim. Yes, animals die as a result of all farming, but death isn't the only issue. He mentioned "less death and suffering" but only argued against the "death" part. Even most "free range" animals live in appalling conditions. Next time you're driving past a field of cows, take a look at what they're living with or, more importantly, what they aren't living with. Most farm animals that live outside have no access to shelter via trees/wooded areas and aren't brought in during heavy rain or storms. Then there are penned animals, living in such cramped conditions they can barely turn around (if at all) and, for social animals like pigs, being denied contact with other pigs is essentially cruelty in itself. Its very easy to go "SEE, animals die anyway, SEE! Hypocrites!" but, honestly, there's alot more to it than that.

I'm not a vegan, hell, I'm not even really a vegetarian (though I draw the line at pork, pig farming is inhumane on so many levels) but I totally understand where they're coming from.

im not vegan or a vegetarian either but i do understand their reasons, i think that the conditions in huge commercial farming are usually terrible even for the free range animals but in smaller community based farms its not bad at all and that i know first hand from growing up around farms and doing on them. the animals had near endless area to roam in and more than enough shelter including trees in multiple barns to go in, they were never mistreated and always had plenty of food. and for the people in those small towns and communities people dont eat without those animals and if they stopped eating them they're not rich enough to afford a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. for these reasons i dont eat fast food or processed meats and i only buy meat that comes from local farms where i know the animals get the best treatment

[beandip]

Originally Posted by Monolithia

I'm not a vegan, hell, I'm not even really a vegetarian (though I draw the line at pork, pig farming is inhumane on so many levels) but I totally understand where they're coming from.

Haha, i'm from iowa, to refuce an ear of corn, or a slab of pork, is like a sin here.

[Monolithia]

I can get behind that. As I say, pork is an exception partly because of how intelligent pigs are. Pigs should really be raised in a very stimulating environment, actually quite similar to dogs and with plenty of contact with other pigs or even just human contact. I know that some farms do raise pigs like this but I'm not exactly going to check out every farm in the country and memorise which ones raise pigs correctly just so I can eat sausages. I'll just stick with soy.

[Sydel]

Originally Posted by Monolithia

I can get behind that. As I say, pork is an exception partly because of how intelligent pigs are. Pigs should really be raised in a very stimulating environment, actually quite similar to dogs and with plenty of contact with other pigs or even just human contact. I know that some farms do raise pigs like this but I'm not exactly going to check out every farm in the country and memorise which ones raise pigs correctly just so I can eat sausages. I'll just stick with soy.

ahhhhh... did you know that given the opportunity a pig WILL EAT A HUMAN! premortem even. Not to sound offensive, but, in my PERSONAL opinion I think that the only good pig is a nice big plate of bacon.



and thats coming from an enviroment vegan.

[Monolithia]

Originally Posted by Sydel

ahhhhh... did you know that given the opportunity a pig WILL EAT A HUMAN! premortem even.

If its starving, maybe. Speaking as someone who has had a pig as a pet and someone who has grown up around farms, I have never seen any pig show agression with the exception of the pig that took a chunk out of a farmer's arm during a display, and that was clearly because the guy was hitting the pig with a stick everytime it stopped looking forwards. Pigs, like most animals including dogs, will attack humans if they view them as either food or a threat but a pig raised in the same way as a dog behaves very similarly... but you can't let them on the sofa.

[Sydel]

yes pigs a more intelligent than one would think, but they with eat whatever they are given or whats in front of them e.g. a human body, bacon, anything.

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I think it's more to do with the fact they are born to die than the fact they die.

if you know what i mean?