Attention ChrisJones

[jonhomeowner]

This is for you:
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tfr/453643630.html

You can tell them how mean I am and all about how I called you a nazi, a police enforcer and a homosexual.

[ChrisJones]

This is for you:
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/tfr/453643630.html

You can tell them how mean I am and all about how I called you a nazi, a police enforcer and a homosexual.

My job, my kids, my house, my sex life. It all suffers.

I can't go out in public anymore without covering my face. It's that bad. I am ashamed, embarrased, and confused.

It's caused me to go through fits of depression. I tried to get her to understand but my wife left me and took everything.

My boss thinks I'm a homosexual and lowered my pay. How am I going to make the mortgage? The cops think I'm a nazi, they drive by my house real slow. Punk kids spraypaint swastikas on my car.

I can't step two feet without a news reporter asking me questions. The KKK calls me constantly asking if I would consider membership. I can't even get it up anymore without crying.

I have nowhere to turn....

[jonhomeowner]

A compelling story. You should get on the news.

[ChrisJones]

This thread is completely unecessary.

What is your problem with me?

[Smooth]

What is your problem with me?

More like infatuation.

[jonhomeowner]

This thread is completely unecessary.

What is your problem with me?
I just wanted a reason to post about this, and it seemed like a fun idea to link it to our "war".

Just like when I wanted to post about the Maine middle schools & birth control thing, I posted it with some relevance by linking to something else that was going on.

[ChrisJones]

I may have said a few things you disagree with but it's quite weak on your part intellectually to resort to calling me silly names. If you are so intelligent I think you would find better words. I'm not saying I'm better or worse than anybody, but this is a community and I feel like my voice has a right to be heard and respected like everybody else. The war is "lame", you are becoming a pest more than a peer. By sharing my ideas I am obviously exposing my vulnerabilities and you attack them to no end. Truth is we have a lot in common.

I'm not your enemy.

Why can't you see that?

[kingrocker]

Speaking of Pests how are ya doing ChrisJones.

[ChrisJones]

Speaking of Pests how are ya doing ChrisJones.
I'd like to think I have done nothing but respect you and your opinion, hardly the activity of a pest.

I am doing just fine, my man.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds..." Einstein

"We must always seek to ally ourselves with that part of the enemy that knows what is right.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." -Ghandi

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I'd like to think I have done nothing but respect you and your opinion, hardly the activity of a pest.

I am doing just fine, my man.

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds..." Einstein

"We must always seek to ally ourselves with that part of the enemy that knows what is right.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong." -Ghandi

My boss likes to include cheesy quotes like this at the bottom of all his emails....and it makes me want to punch him for some reason...I just want to grab him by his toupee and shout:

PUT IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS MAN!

[kingrocker]

Well ChrisJones sometimes it seems you have to argue or have an opposite opinion on everything even if that means you change the subject, And because of this I called you a pest. I do respect your opinions but you have SO many it becomes a little tiresome.

While we are quoting, here is a little quote to think about.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain

[ChrisJones]

I feel that bias is so strong against me, I need those strong words to shield myself.

[kingrocker]

My boss likes to include cheesy quotes like this at the bottom of all his emails....and it makes me want to punch him for some reason...I just want to grab him by his toupee and shout:

PUT IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS MAN!

Yea there is a woman at my work that does the same damn thing. Everytime I get an email from her I have to see those stupid quotes.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

Yea there is a woman at my work that does the same damn thing. Everytime I get an email from her I have to see those stupid quotes.


Don't ya hate it? I started adding my own quotes when I respond.... this is one of my favorites:


"Some people wanted champagne and caviar when they should have had beer and hot dogs”

-Dwight D. Eisenhower

[kingrocker]

Thats actually a good idea. That would at least give me some enjoyment out of it.

[ChrisJones]

Well ChrisJones sometimes it seems you have to argue or have an opposite opinion on everything even if that means you change the subject, And because of this I called you a pest. I do respect your opinions but you have SO many it becomes a little tiresome.

While we are quoting, here is a little quote to think about.

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
Mark Twain

I do not think of myself as very opinionated at all. That's funny. Maybe I am?

There's no other use for this forum than to share ideas.

I'm sharing mine.

When somebody personally attacks me, I will stand up for myself. It's just who I am. I'm a fighter and an idealist. You won't see me provoke a fight. Ever. But you will see me go down fighting with both guns blazing.

There's a huge difference between debate and arguing. I've debated with plenty of you, but have only argued with one.

Now about jon....

All the threads that became bullshit because of my involvement was me standing my ground versus a personal attack. I'm not going to sit back and pay victim while people fuck with me because I happen to have a different point of view. I admit my flaws because I only seek the truth.

When somebody tells me they are better and smarter than everybody else I am going to challenge that person. It's the anti-authority in me. Hence, why I fight with jon constantly. For some fucked up reason unknown to me, Jon thinks he is some kind of authority figure, and I challenge that constantly. It amazes me how he criticizes the government when he is on a power trip himself.

I have a real problem with authority. Just look at my police record. I always have and always will dislike operating under rules. As long as jon believes he is the head chief in charge on this message board, as he judges everything I say as stupid or not, there will be me in the shadows despising him and plotting to take him down.

I am not jon's enemy. He is not mine. As soon as he realizes this, the better.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

Now about jon....

When somebody tells me they are better and smarter than everybody else I am going to challenge that person. It's the anti-authority in me. Hence, why I fight with jon constantly. For some fucked up reason unknown to me, Jon thinks he is some kind of authority figure, and I challenge that constantly.

I think it's comments like this that attract the wrath of Jon... If you are the anti-authority...you believe that Jon is the authority? That might be your problem.....Jon never claims to be smarter than anyone, and I personally don't think he is the authority here, he has an opinion, just like you. If your opinion cannot withstand ridicule..... it's not worth making it known....and you should refer back to kingrocker's quote.

[ChrisJones]

jon claimed on numerous times that his intelligence was vastly superior

[ChrisJones]

it was one of the first things he said to me

[jonhomeowner]

LOL! He challenges me because he sees me as an authority figure? How immature!

[ChrisJones]

LOL! He challenges me because he sees me as an authority figure? How immature!

You stated yourself you are smarter than everybody else, and you sure act like you think it.

[Lady Marina]

My boss likes to include cheesy quotes like this at the bottom of all his emails....and it makes me want to punch him for some reason...I just want to grab him by his toupee and shout:

PUT IT IN YOUR OWN WORDS MAN!

Hahah, I was just reading his post and rolling my eyes thinking "Why the quotes dude!?" ... No offense chrissy poo love ya!.. haha

I am a quote lover myself, but I've never understood the quote at the bottoms of emails.. Even my mom does it.. and it's all horse crap.

GOD DAMN IT!

<3

[ChrisJones]

I don't see how using quotes makes me this horrible human being.

[ChrisJones]

sorry I'm just bitter about this whole thing because I like coming here but I don't like being attacked

[Lady Marina]

I don't see how using quotes makes me this horrible human being.

Haha, no no not horrible.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I don't see how using quotes makes me this horrible human being.


Dude, no one accused you of being a horrible human being. Damn, you interpret everything as a personal attack! We had opinions about the use of quotes.... not about your status as a human being. Should this be moved to the emo link?

all this crying and such.....

[ChrisJones]

Dude, no one accused you of being a horrible human being. Damn, you interpret everything as a personal attack! We had opinions about the use of quotes.... not about your status as a human being. Should this be moved to the emo link?

all this crying and such.....

I am rather emotional. oops

[Lady Marina]

Group hug? .. haha

[ChrisJones]

LOL! He challenges me because he sees me as an authority figure? How immature!

No I think you act like an authority figure and you don't realize it. You are on some kind of power trip.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

Group hug? .. haha

Maybe i'm wrong...but didn't the last thread you said that in turn into some sort of gutter brained sex talk?

Because that would be great right about now, and......begin.

[Lady Marina]

I think i always speak about hugs, and somehow, that turned into a sex train... then yeah we all went mad. Haha I heart my little punkers.

[GunStreetGirl]

I use quotes quite often. And sometimes they are in another language!! :eek:
I know, you dont have to say anything, I am more than likely going to seek some professional help for this. I just find that sometimes, someone with more "wisdom", has put exactly what *I* want to say, in more simple manner. I tend to be a bit wordy.
"A closed mouth gathers no foot" -who the fuck cares :p

[ChrisJones]

If it improves upon the silence, I will speak.

If it's on my mind, I will speak it.

I will not hold myself back.

I will speak from the heart without thinking too hard.

If I am a wicked soul than my words they will come out wicked.

Only those that carefully plan their words have something to hide.

-me

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I use quotes quite often. And sometimes they are in another language!! :eek:
I know, you dont have to say anything, I am more than likely going to seek some professional help for this. I just find that sometimes, someone with more "wisdom", has put exactly what *I* want to say, in more simple manner. I tend to be a bit wordy.
"A closed mouth gathers no foot" -who the fuck cares :p

I agree, who the fuck cares about quotes anyway...






"If it improves upon the silence, I will speak.

If it's on my mind, I will speak it.

I will not hold myself back.

I will speak from the heart without thinking too hard.

If I am a wicked soul than my words they will come out wicked.

Only those that carefully plan their words have something to hide."


-Chrisjones

[Dan]

i hate niggers!
....

[jonhomeowner]

I think i always speak about hugs, and somehow, that turned into a sex train... then yeah we all went mad. Haha I heart my little punkers.
Now you know it's what we really want from you.

[jonhomeowner]

No I think you act like an authority figure and you don't realize it. You are on some kind of power trip.
Doesn't matter if I do it on purpose or not. The point of my post is that you see me as one, and you challenge me solely on that basis. That is what you said.

[jonhomeowner]

i hate niggers!....
See, yet more evidence that he's a nazi... And Dan is just so ashamed, he has nothing to say!

[ChrisJones]

Doesn't matter if I do it on purpose or not. The point of my post is that you see me as one, and you challenge me solely on that basis. That is what you said.
If you do it on purpose we will never get along.

[jonhomeowner]

If you do it on purpose we will never get along.
That would be fine with me.

But that fact that you challenge me simply because I'm a perceived "authority" is laughable and immature.

[dead_head]

ahhh why can't everyone get along

[Lady Marina]

Wheres the fun in that?

[dead_head]

Wheres the fun in that?


you have a point.... damn you

[Lady Marina]

Haha sorry to rain on your parade! <3

[ChrisJones]

That would be fine with me.

But that fact that you challenge me simply because I'm a perceived "authority" is laughable and immature.
I question authority. This includes police, government, schools, organized religion and even little pricks like you.

I'm a rebellious spirit. Sue me.

[jonhomeowner]

I question authority. This includes police, government, schools, organized religion and even little pricks like you.

I'm a rebellious spirit. Sue me.
Rebelion for the sake of rebellion is really stupid and immature.

Rebellion because you have a reason makes sense. Do you have any real reasons to constantly challenge the police, government, schools, organized religion and little pricks like me?

Or are you just some sort-of lame iconoclast or nihilist?

[dead_head]

Rebelion for the sake of rebellion is really stupid and immature.

Rebellion because you have a reason makes sense. Do you have any real reasons to constantly challenge the police, government, schools, organized religion and little pricks like me?

Or are you just some sort-of lame iconoclast or nihilist?

i don't get why your trying to have some sort of control over his opinions. aren't your own opinions enough?

[jonhomeowner]

i don't get why your trying to have some sort of control over his opinions. aren't your own opinions enough?
I'm not trying to control his opinions. I'm suggesting that he makes himself a smart individual and stop being the fucking retard he's been parading about as on here.

[ChrisJones]

Rebelion for the sake of rebellion is really stupid and immature.

Rebellion because you have a reason makes sense. Do you have any real reasons to constantly challenge the police, government, schools, organized religion and little pricks like me?

Or are you just some sort-of lame iconoclast or nihilist?

So you need a cue before you take suspicion? You are going to get fucked in the ass before you realize it.

How many people have abused their power and it was too late before anybody found out? Well I'm the guy that's looking out and prepared beforehand, while people like you are blind because "you don't have a reason to be suspicious" so you sit on the sidelines as corruption happens under your nose.

Call me paranoid.

I've trained myself to challenge authority. It's a habit, sorry.

I'm shocked you have so much faith in authority.

Again you try to label me with dismissive remarks and names. Truth is you can't settle on one deragatory label to call me. I enjoy being complicated.

While you remain simple.

[jonhomeowner]

So you need a cue before you take suspicion? You are going to get fucked in the ass before you realize it.
You obviously have trust issues. I trust everything and everybody the same amount until I know them. Government, police, friends of friends, babysitters, teachers, authority figured of all sorts, the mailperson, doctors... All of them.

You, on the other hand, seem to want to "fight them" simply because they have authority. Not everybody with power is going to abuse it.

How many people have abused their power and it was too late before anybody found out? Well I'm the guy that's looking out and prepared beforehand, while people like you are blind because "you don't have a reason to be suspicious" so you sit on the sidelines as corruption happens under your nose.
No, I'm reasonable. You simply hate people in power and are afraid of them. One might wonder if it's jealousy?

Call me paranoid.
You're paranoid.

I've trained myself to challenge authority. It's a habit, sorry.
You should apologize, yes.

I'm shocked you have so much faith in authority.
I didn't say I have faith in authority. I did, however, say that questioning authority simply because it's authority is really fucking stupid.

[ChrisJones]

You obviously have trust issues. I trust everything and everybody the same amount until I know them. Government, police, friends of friends, babysitters, teachers, authority figured of all sorts, the mailperson, doctors... All of them.

You, on the other hand, seem to want to "fight them" simply because they have authority. Not everybody with power is going to abuse it.


No, I'm reasonable. You simply hate people in power and are afraid of them. One might wonder if it's jealousy?


You're paranoid.


You should apologize, yes.


I didn't say I have faith in authority. I did, however, say that questioning authority simply because it's authority is really fucking stupid.

Well I'm a natural rebel and obviously you aren't. It's ok.

[jonhomeowner]

Well I'm a natural rebel and obviously you aren't. It's ok.
Natural rebel? LOL.

I should Wikipedia that, maybe I'll learn something.

[jonhomeowner]

Ok, here's what Wikipedia says about "Natural Rebels":

Intellectual retards that don't trust any system of care or authority. May have been sexually or physically abused by authority figures in their early life.

[ChrisJones]

Ok, here's what Wikipedia says about "Natural Rebels":

Intellectual retards that don't trust any system of care or authority. May have been sexually or physically abused by authority figures in their early life.

Making fun of people whose situations aren't as good as yours.

Weak

[jonhomeowner]

Making fun of people whose situations aren't as good as yours.

Weak
Look, don't be so perso...

Wait, be completely and personally offended, that was my sole intention.

[ChrisJones]

Look, don't be so perso...

Wait, be completely and personally offended, that was my sole intention.
I'm not offended. Just reassured you have the mindset of a spoiled holier than thou rich kid. Which I suspected this whole time.

[ChrisJones]

The fact you trust everybody and institutions says a possible few things about you.

1. a complete lack of awareness of current events and past history of the world

2. isolation from the wolrd

3. you were raised in a rich suburban community where you didn't need to lock your doors

4. Lack of life experience

5. Denial of reality and truth
The same government that supported slavery, stole land and imprisoned native americans, didn't allow women to vote, goes to war breaking international laws, bases policy on the needs of special interest groups? The same religions that justify genocide, racism, and pedophilia? The police that pick and choose when and where to enforce rules, racial profile, use excessive force? The school systems that expell students for wearing black clothing, fail students based on family background, falsify test scores to receive funding?

This is a tiny miniscule speck of the problems authority figues have caused. and you still trust them? Are you blind to all of this?

[Nips]

he never said he trusts everybody and all institutions. he certainly doesnt have much faith in what you say, now does he.

[jonhomeowner]

I'm not offended. Just reassured you have the mindset of a spoiled holier than thou rich kid. Which I suspected this whole time.
Wait, I have the mindset of a rich kid? Aren't you the one spouting-off that people who "can't" or "don't" make it are lazy?

That's your privilege speaking, boy.

[Ailo]

this is retarded... what a stupid and childish Thread

[ChrisJones]

Wait, I have the mindset of a rich kid? Aren't you the one spouting-off that people who "can't" or "don't" make it are lazy?

That's your privilege speaking, boy.

Not all hard work equals success but success doesn't come without hard work.

You need to explain this privilege thing because I am the least privileged person I know.

[jonhomeowner]

Not all hard work equals success but success doesn't come without hard work.

You need to explain this privilege thing because I am the least privileged person I know.
Everything you say "screams privilege". You don't seem like you've had to go through any hardships, or at least ever ask anybody else for help.

[ChrisJones]

Hardships?

I wish I could make you understand how mistaken and dillusional your opinions of me are. I've overcome many many obstacles in my life. Explaining the details would take up 1000 pages. My childhood was extremely traumatic, I never once met my father in my life, we lived in a car up until I was 5, I've been out on the streets alone since I was 15 blah blah...listen everybody has problems. And I'm not going to whine, like every typical center-of-attention-me-me-me american loves to do.

Some lessons I've learned
* You determine your destiny
* Nobody likes a begger
* living off of handouts will make you dependant on them
* society gives not a shit about you.
* success only comes with hard work and luck
* when it's all you can eat, eat all you can
* treat every meal like it's your first and last
* don't work for assholes
* no matter how bad your situation, somebody has it worse
* people will surprise you

All this shit I've done in my life, I did it on my own with no financial assistance from anybody. Perhaps I was too afraid to ask others or because felt deep down I knew I was strong enough to overcome. Well I pulled myself out of the gutter without any help from anybody. Maybe if my family didn't live in bumfuck germany or if my mom wasn't a crazy drunk in florida, I might have more support from them. No I hold my brothers, my mother, and my friends up now. I am gladly their crutch. I've given them money and helped them in their time of need. They are important to me. It's probably because I learned some tough lessons in life and you should take care of people around you.

Nobody helped me to get where I am. And even if "where I am" is still at the bottom of the food chain, at least I'm happy. The gift given to me when I was born was not a financial one, but an emotional one. The few folks that came along in my life to help me overcome my own demons I will always cherish. Maybe you think I "scream privelege" because you have never met anybody that's dug themselves out. Also, I don't ask for help unless it's a life and death situation. So you got that right. It's not that I never needed help, it's that I chose to help myself. And no, I haven't found God yet.

I judge people on their actions, not their opinions, so it takes me awhile to decide. Your actions have been nothing but character assaults on every person that exposes their vulnerabilities, so can you blame me for believing you're just an oppurtinistic predator?

[Dan]

* people will surprise you


especially if it's your birthday

[bunniegraves]

Hardships?
And I'm not going to whine, like every typical center-of-attention-me-me-me american loves to do.


every american? really? you've met us all? thats an idiotic statement. every country has is whiners, even yours. when arguing, try not making generalized statements that dont help you make your point.

[ChrisJones]

every american? really? you've met us all? thats an idiotic statement. every country has is whiners, even yours. when arguing, try not making generalized statements that dont help you make your point.
I was referring specifically to "typical center of attention me me me" americans, whose population and impact on american culture is quite substantial.

Not all americans

[Nips]

every american? really? you've met us all? thats an idiotic statement. every country has is whiners, even yours. when arguing, try not making generalized statements that dont help you make your point.


he's american too, ya goof.

he said 'typical'.. so as not to generalize, i guess.

[jonhomeowner]

Hardships?

I wish I could make you understand how mistaken and dillusional your opinions of me are. I've overcome many many obstacles in my life. Explaining the details would take up 1000 pages. My childhood was extremely traumatic, I never once met my father in my life, we lived in a car up until I was 5, I've been out on the streets alone since I was 15 blah blah...listen everybody has problems. And I'm not going to whine, like every typical center-of-attention-me-me-me american loves to do.

Some lessons I've learned
* You determine your destiny
That's a really shitty lesson that is very, very untrue.

* living off of handouts will make you dependant on them
Definitely untrue. I know people who have lived off of handouts until they could get a new job.

Stop making such stupid absolute statements.

[bunniegraves]

he's american too, ya goof.

he said 'typical'.. so as not to generalize, i guess.

for some reason i thought he was from the UK...silly of me.

[oldsklgrl]

jon...My understanding is Chris's "lessons" are specific to his situation.

Chris, it's great you dug yourself out, and you did it in a way that suited you. That is not to say it is the best way for everybody to do it. I know people who have relied heavily on friends, joined the military or found other ways to get their lives together. If you want to tout privilege, I guess that's me. Not so much from my parents. My grandparents have always helped me out, my grandmother still does and I am blessed to have her. But as I said, that is my situation.

Jon...You know I appreciate your arguments, but this seems like an unfound personal attack. Chris has his opinions, and I disagree with a lot of them, but he supports them, he sticks to the points at hand and unless personally attacked maintains a cordial demeanor. What more can you ask for on a message board? I find no discrepancies in the articulation of his opinions. I think he is still young and has a lot to learn, but I don't think he will deny that. I guess I feel you should lighten up a little. There are far better targets on this site for your candor.

[jonhomeowner]

jon...My understanding is Chris's "lessons" are specific to his situation.

Chris, it's great you dug yourself out, and you did it in a way that suited you. That is not to say it is the best way for everybody to do it. I know people who have relied heavily on friends, joined the military or found other ways to get their lives together. If you want to tout privilege, I guess that's me. Not so much from my parents. My grandparents have always helped me out, my grandmother still does and I am blessed to have her. But as I said, that is my situation.

Jon...You know I appreciate your arguments, but this seems like an unfound personal attack. Chris has his opinions, and I disagree with a lot of them, but he supports them, he sticks to the points at hand and unless personally attacked maintains a cordial demeanor. What more can you ask for on a message board?
Him to stop thinking they apply universally. That's my problem. He thinks they apply to everybody and that everybody is going to end up just like him if they "try".

I think he is still young and has a lot to learn, but I don't think he will deny that.
He's the same age as me, apparently.

[oldsklgrl]

He's the same age as me, apparently.

And you'll deny that you still have a lot to learn?

Hell I still have a lot to learn! ;)

[ChrisJones]

I learned my lessons from life. Not some textbook fantasy on how the "perfect" person should think.

That's a really shitty lesson that is very, very untrue.

Jon you are being stupid now.

You do choose your own destiny.

The choices you make dictate the life you lead.

Everyday you wake up and get out of bed you are controlling your destiny.

You could commit suicide right now. You could quit your job. You could be eating cancerous crap. You could decide to get married. You can just lay in bed all day. If you pursue a career field, it was your decision.

So using your logic, if the world isn't kissing your ass, it's your personal nightmare. Are you that shallow and self absorbed?

Where do you live jon, in a prison camp?
Where ever it is, you obviously feel week and susceptible to outside influences.

You are in control. The choices you make dictate the life you lead.

Perhaps that's a responsibility you can't face yet.

Definitely untrue. I know people who have lived off of handouts until they could get a new job.

Stop making such stupid absolute statements.
By relying on handouts to get you through life you are counting on something that isn't always going to be there. Becoming dependant on handouts is quite easy to do.
One day when those handouts aren't there, you are fucked because you were so dependant on them.

You say you are a home owner. Do you actually own a home jon? A lot of work goes into that. I can't believe you have no pride in that work. And were you forced to buy the house? I fuckin doubt it. Again, you crafted that destiny to own a house.

And jon the fact that you look down upon people whose situation isn't nice as yours proves to me you don't give a fuck about the "unpriveleged" people anyways.
So stop that. It makes you look incredibly insensitive. Which makes you the least likey candidate to know what's good for people. You simply don't care about people. So don't try to lead them or tell them how to live. You never claimed to be an asset to society so I won't even go there.

I have no respect for anybody that holds themselves up on a pedastel as some kind of moral authority. What works for me might not work for you and vice verse. This doesn't make me or you an idiot, just different.

Again you call me names. All of this great wisdom you claim to have and you can't come up with anything better than silly names. "Oh I don't understand you. You must be an enemy. you're different than me...boo, I'm telling the teacher"

[bunniegraves]

i think the nickname "jonhomeowner," is a jab at cookie cutter suburbia, but i could be wrong.

[Nips]

You could commit suicide right now. You could quit your job. You could be eating cancerous crap. You could decide to get married. You can just lay in bed all day. If you pursue a career field, it was your decision.

or you could be struck by lightening.

you dont truely control your life. there are far too many outside perameters for that to be true.

[jonhomeowner]

i think the nickname "jonhomeowner," is a jab at cookie cutter suburbia, but i could be wrong.
DING, DING, DING!

At least someone is smart enough to figure that out.

Well, besides all of the PF people who already knew/figured it out back in the day.

[Nips]

its pretty obvious really. you have to be pretty special to use it... against... you. ah.

[jonhomeowner]

I learned my lessons from life. Not some textbook fantasy on how the "perfect" person should think.
You learned YOUR lessons for YOUR life, which means that they do not apply to everybody.

Anecdotal evidence is no logical. One must look at the big picture, and the big picture doesn't compare to what you've said in many ways.

You do choose your own destiny. The choices you make dictate the life you lead.
Not really. It's random chance, like I said before. Horrible accidents, medical problems... Both of these can lead to bills out the ass and time off of work. Do people choose to have those things happen? FUCK NO.

Everyday you wake up and get out of bed you are controlling your destiny.
No, I'm getting out of bed and controlling one small part of it. However, as I've stated (numerous times in the past and at least once in this post), there are so many "random chance" encounters and the like that you never really have control - just the illusion of control.

If you like being fooled into thinking that you're truly in control of your life, then you keep livingly ignorantly like that... I hope it makes you happy.

You could commit suicide right now. You could quit your job. You could be eating cancerous crap. You could decide to get married. You can just lay in bed all day. If you pursue a career field, it was your decision.
I could do none of those things, walk outside, get hit by a car, spend five weeks in the hospital recovering, lose my job in the process, lose my house in the process, the girl I plan on making my wife (no, I'm not planning on getting married, this is an example) could have died in the car accident, and I could lose a bunch of fingers, thus ruining my career if I was a musician.

Looks like I don't have much control over my life, eh?

Where ever it is, you obviously feel week and susceptible to outside influences.
Weak.

And we all are succeptible to outside influences. If you think you're really above that, then you are delusional.

You are in control. The choices you make dictate the life you lead.
I think I've given enough reasons as to why that's wrong, so I won't do it again.

You say you are a home owner. Do you actually own a home jon?
No, I don't own a home, and I wouldn't want to.

And I never said I was a homeowner.

A lot of work goes into that. I can't believe you have no pride in that work. And were you forced to buy the house? I fuckin doubt it. Again, you crafted that destiny to own a house.
LOL.

And jon the fact that you look down upon people whose situation isn't nice as yours proves to me you don't give a fuck about the "unpriveleged" people anyways.
I give a lot of fuck about the unprivileged.

So stop that. It makes you look incredibly insensitive. Which makes you the least likey candidate to know what's good for people. You simply don't care about people.
No, I don't care about you.

What works for me might not work for you and vice verse.
HOLY SHIT, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THE ENTIRE TIME... THAT YOU KEEP APPLYING YOUR STANDARDS TO OTHER PEOPLE, WHICH YOU CANNOT DO. IT SEEMS THAT YOU'RE FINALLY GETTING IT. OR YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT AND JUST SAID SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK SOUNDED GOOD AND THOUGHT OF AS SOME SORT-OF ORIGINAL THOUGHT.

[oldsklgrl]

Okay that last part was a little immature...(the last part of Chris's last comment)

Chris, Jon is correct in saying the decisions that you made and the tenets that you follow are not universal truths. Different situations and different people use different methods to get through life.

Both of you are guilty of name calling, therefore neither of you gains any ground in your arguments.

Chris, Jon isn't saying he knows what's best for people. All I have ascertained is he doesn't feel your way is the best way for everybody. I agree with his sentiment (if that is in fact what he is saying).

Maybe if you refrain from using what might be considered a generalization your arguments and advice might be taken as such. Sometime it does seem as you are issuing directives. And maybe I'm naive here, but I don't believe that is your intent.

I'm not saying you should stop stating how you feel or even submit to Jon’s ideologies. Just re-read your post before you hit the submit button and include key phrases like "people I have encountered", "it has been my experience" or "what works for me".

You have a lot of valuable experiences to share; it is a shame to turn readers off with the initial appearance of preaching.

[ChrisJones]

You learned YOUR lessons for YOUR life, which means that they do not apply to everybody.

Anecdotal evidence is no logical. One must look at the big picture, and the big picture doesn't compare to what you've said in many ways.


Not really. It's random chance, like I said before. Horrible accidents, medical problems... Both of these can lead to bills out the ass and time off of work. Do people choose to have those things happen? FUCK NO.


No, I'm getting out of bed and controlling one small part of it. However, as I've stated (numerous times in the past and at least once in this post), there are so many "random chance" encounters and the like that you never really have control - just the illusion of control.

If you like being fooled into thinking that you're truly in control of your life, then you keep livingly ignorantly like that... I hope it makes you happy.


I could do none of those things, walk outside, get hit by a car, spend five weeks in the hospital recovering, lose my job in the process, lose my house in the process, the girl I plan on making my wife (no, I'm not planning on getting married, this is an example) could have died in the car accident, and I could lose a bunch of fingers, thus ruining my career if I was a musician.

Looks like I don't have much control over my life, eh?


Weak.

And we all are succeptible to outside influences. If you think you're really above that, then you are delusional.


I think I've given enough reasons as to why that's wrong, so I won't do it again.


No, I don't own a home, and I wouldn't want to.

And I never said I was a homeowner.


LOL.


I give a lot of fuck about the unprivileged.


No, I don't care about you.


HOLY SHIT, THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THE ENTIRE TIME... THAT YOU KEEP APPLYING YOUR STANDARDS TO OTHER PEOPLE, WHICH YOU CANNOT DO. IT SEEMS THAT YOU'RE FINALLY GETTING IT. OR YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT AND JUST SAID SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK SOUNDED GOOD AND THOUGHT OF AS SOME SORT-OF ORIGINAL THOUGHT.

Okay jon. It appears you support just sitting on your ass your whole life and not even lifting a finger for anything

And then you sit upon this throne and judge everybody and attack them for every little thing.

Again you think your choices have nothing to do with how your life turns out. Are you mentally retarded jon? Sure stupid accidents and mishaps happen, but these only make you stronger and teach you lessons SO THAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH YOUR GOALS IN LIFE. By accomplishing, I mean making choices and acting upon them.

So if you don't dictate your destiny answer me some questions.

What forced Einstein to keep working on his theories?

What forced Ghandi to free his country?

What forced the US to drop atomic bombs?

What forced martin luther king to work so hard for civil rights?

If say they were forced by anything other than their own willpower you are in complete denial of reality.

I'm not saying all of your choices will lead to changing the world for the better, look at hitler or stalin, but they did craft their destinies by making choices. I'm only using famous people because their achievements are more visible. Everyday millions of people make choices which shape the world.

They made those choices on their own. Nobody forced them.

You craft your destiny.

If you choose to play victim your whole life, I can't change that. If you choose to lay down and let the system control you, I can't change that. I'll respect you a lot more if you pick yourself up from tragedy and learn from it. As opposed to playing victim.

Now If you said "some people are totally fucked" I can agree with you on that.
But to say "you have no control" is just not true. People like to believe they are totally fucked when sometimes they are not, so I don't buy a lot of the "I'm hopeless' scenario when a lot of times they just need to pick up the pieces and forge on.

If you cut your hands as a musician, it wasn't your destiny to cut your hands. It was your destiny to do something other than be a musician.

In fact jon, tell everybody that has a life dream "don't even bother" because that's your attitude right now. You are about as inspirational as a rotten hunk of cheese.

You are in control of what you do. I learned this from history books. Even the shittiest ghetto schools have martin luther king junior discussions.

If you keep disagreeing with me on this I can go a lot deeper.

[jonhomeowner]

Okay jon. It appears you support just sitting on your ass your whole life and not even lifting a finger for anything
Yep, that's me. Because I understand that there are lots of outside influences that affect me, I must just be giving up and not doing anything. Right.

And then you sit upon this throne and judge everybody and attack them for every little thing.
I do. I have a right to, and I'll continue to do it. Especially if you are too dense to understand that a person doesn't really control their destiny.

Again you think your choices have nothing to do with how your life turns out. Are you mentally retarded jon?
I never said your choices have nothing to do with how your life turns out. I said that there are many outside influences, as well.

Reading comprehension... Learn it.

Sure stupid accidents and mishaps happen, but these only make you stronger and teach you lessons SO THAT YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH YOUR GOALS IN LIFE. By accomplishing, I mean making choices and acting upon them.
What if they completely destroy your life?

What forced Einstein to keep working on his theories?
Curiousity.

What forced Ghandi to free his country?
The want of freedom. But what if a tree fell on his house and he died? He wouldn't've controlled that.

I'm not going to answer the rest of these questions because it's obvious you still don't get it. I'm not arguing that people can't make decisions and do things in their life, I'm arguing that controlling ones life isn't an absolute as you seem to suggest it is - there are far too many outside influences that can have an effect.


But to say "you have no control" is just not true.
You don't.

You can make choices, but that's not control. If you truly had control, you'd be able to stop anything bad from happening, which you cannot. Control is a method of making something go exactly as you want it, and unless you're an omnipotent being, that's impossible.

If you cut your hands as a musician, it wasn't your destiny to cut your hands.
Oh, now you're bringing in destiny? If you truly believe that you "control" your life, then destiny cannot exist. You're contradicting yourself, now (nothing new, really, but it's so blatantly obvious now).

[ChrisJones]

Fine jon, fuck everybody that has taken the reigns in their life. They were wrong.

Is that better?

And oh yeah one more lesson I learned:
*shit happens

A tree didn't fall on ghandi, it may have fallen on many others but it didn't happen to him.
Do you think he lived his life, like you, just waiting for that tree to fall?

No. He went and pursued what all of his critics called impossible. Unthinkable. There were warrants on his head. They called him a traitor, a liar, and an extremist.

He lived his life with purpose and meaning. Oh and he had a problem with authority a million times more than just my "questioning" yet I'm the unrealistic asshole. Hahaha well jon, he took a chance and after years of hard work and study, it paid off.

Have you not found purpose and meaning in your life?

You have already exposed yourself as a primitive animal, preying on the weak. Predators are intelligent, they have to be to hunt, so maybe you are intelligent. But they have no place in modern society except to further divide people. You do a fine job at that.

I'm an idealist. I fight for what I believe and I believe in serving humanity to make this place a better world. I hold my values at a very deep spiritual level. I'm young now but I trust as I get older my influence will be greater, not to lead people, but to open their eyes and make them realize they have to stand up for what they believe in as well.

Eventually my rivals will get tired of fighting me and start provoking violence towards me. And that's when I win. That's when they show themselves as the prejudiced, power hungry, hateful, violent beasts they are.

I don't think you really believe in anything jon. That's ok. There are plenty like you. People that are just angry.

[jonhomeowner]

I don't think you believe in reading comprehension.

Or at least, you don't understand what it is.

You keep misreading things, or simply not getting it.

And that is why you fail.

p.s. I'm a realist, because idealism always loses. And when your rivals provoke violence towards you, you lose - your life.

[ChrisJones]

I don't think you believe in reading comprehension.

Or at least, you don't understand what it is.

You keep misreading things, or simply not getting it.

And that is why you fail.

p.s. I'm a realist, because idealism always loses. And when your rivals provoke violence towards you, you lose - your life.

For a realist, you sure are in denial of some major basic facts of history.
Idealism doesn't always lose. Weren't we just talking about MLK and Ghandi? They changed the world as the realists sat on the sidelines saying "it can't be done". Idealists engineer revolutions. Although I don't know if I'd ever do something like that, certainly it shows what idealists are capable of. And they make the world a better place. If they fail or they died trying, what better cause to die for than to improve life for humanity?

In fact the largest changes humanity has see were due to idealists being taken seriously. Please open to chapter one of history book entitled "they made a revolution"

And when rivals attack with violence they are exposed as a detriment to society and mankind, hell bent on self destruction. We must not use violence to get a point across. Only as a defensive mechanism to protect non-violent societies againt their oppressor societies.

This is what I think. You don't have to like it.

[jonhomeowner]

For a realist, you sure are in denial of some major basic facts of history.
Idealism doesn't always lose. Weren't we just talking about MLK and Ghandi? They changed the world as the realists sat on the sidelines saying "it can't be done". Idealists engineer revolutions. Although I don't know if I'd ever do something like that, certainly it shows what idealists are capable of. And they make the world a better place. If they fail or they died trying, what better cause to die for than to improve life for humanity?
Ghandi beat his wife and MLK ended up dead.

That's what pressure of trying to use your idealism does to you.

[ChrisJones]

Ghandi beat his wife and MLK ended up dead.

That's what pressure of trying to use your idealism does to you.

And you're an asshole on the internet.

I guess we all have our flaws.

Again you use people's weaknesses to expose their own vulnerabilities while carefully shielding your own. Clever. Your game is so predictable. Can I call you "robot jon"?

[Nips]

chris... you dont get jons angle on this at all. he really is making a lot of sense and youre making a bit of a fool of yourself.

[jonhomeowner]

And you're an asshole on the internet.

I guess we all have our flaws.

Again you use people's weaknesses to expose their own vulnerabilities while carefully shielding your own. Clever. Your game is so predictable. Can I call you "robot jon"?
You're more like "robot" than I am.

Five points to PFers who get my joke.

[Nips]

thats 5 points for me.

[ChrisJones]

You learned YOUR lessons for YOUR life, which means that they do not apply to everybody.
I learned more lessons from other people's mistakes, observations, than my own experiences.

Truth be told

A wiseman learns from others mistakes. A fool learns from his own.(read that on a fortune cookie somewhere)


Anecdotal evidence is no logical. One must look at the big picture, and the big picture doesn't compare to what you've said in many ways.

How can it be anecdotal when I can give real life accounts that back me up?

there are so many "random chance" encounters and the like that you never really have control - just the illusion of control.

It's a combination of luck and hard work to get you where you are destined to be.


If you like being fooled into thinking that you're truly in control of your life, then you keep livingly ignorantly like that... I hope it makes you happy.


I could do none of those things, walk outside, get hit by a car, spend five weeks in the hospital recovering, lose my job in the process, lose my house in the process, the girl I plan on making my wife (no, I'm not planning on getting married, this is an example) could have died in the car accident, and I could lose a bunch of fingers, thus ruining my career if I was a musician.

Looks like I don't have much control over my life, eh?

And we all are succeptible to outside influences. If you think you're really above that, then you are delusional.

You control every movement your body makes, therefore you have control over your actions.

No shit, the outside world causes harm. I've been dealt a shitty hand of cards, I can assure you of that. But you learn from those lessons and make the best of it. If something terrible happens to you and ruins your life, well shit happens. But you are wrong to assume that it happens to everybody. Because it doesn't. People are suffering in this world and face alot more dangers than you so get off your ass and make the best of what you got. That's all I'm saying. You have it quite good living in this country and you are unintelligent not to use what's around you.

and about your name...

You don't own a home?

Do you plan on renting your whole life?

[jonhomeowner]

How can it be anecdotal when I can give real life accounts that back me up?
That's what anecdotal means - giving a real story about your life or the life of someone you know. You're telling an anecdote (which means story, if you check a thesaurus), and while it may be true, it's not valid because if could only apply in your situation.

You control every movement your body makes, therefore you have control over your actions.
Yes, you have control over your actions, which are one thing that affect your life.

Then again, one could argue that not everybody can control their actions. Plenty of people out there have mental disorders that prohibit them from full (or even most) control of their body.

You don't own a home?

Do you plan on renting your whole life?
Yes. I do not want a piece of property to tie me down. I would rather pay someone else to live in their "property" (remember, I don't believe in owning land, anyway).

[ChrisJones]

That's what anecdotal means - giving a real story about your life or the life of someone you know. You're telling an anecdote (which means story, if you check a thesaurus), and while it may be true, it's not valid because if could only apply in your situation.

Some truths you can't prove in a dictionary.

Yes, you have control over your actions, which are one thing that affect your life.

Then again, one could argue that not everybody can control their actions. Plenty of people out there have mental disorders that prohibit them from full (or even most) control of their body.


finally you sound like a human being for once jon



Yes. I do not want a piece of property to tie me down. I would rather pay someone else to live in their "property" (remember, I don't believe in owning land, anyway).

Oh my god, instead of just calling me a silly name, you actually admitted to something in your belief system. Call 911! (is he breathing?)

[ChrisJones]

check this out jon

"

INFPs do not like to deal with hard facts and logic. Their focus on their feelings and the Human Condition makes it difficult for them to deal with impersonal judgment. They don't understand or believe in the validity of impersonal judgment, which makes them naturally rather ineffective at using it. Most INFPs will avoid impersonal analysis, although some have developed this ability and are able to be quite logical. Under stress, it's not uncommon for INFPs to mis-use hard logic in the heat of anger, throwing out fact after (often inaccurate) fact in an emotional outburst."

Do you find this analysis of me accurate?

[Nips]

so what are INFP's actually good at then? thats a pretty damning discription.

[ChrisJones]

so what are INFP's actually good at then? thats a pretty damning discription.

Healers have a profound sense of idealism derived from a strong personal morality, and they conceive of the world as an ethical, honorable place. Indeed, to understand INFP's, we must understand their idealism as almost boundless and selfless, inspiring them to make extraordinary sacrifices for someone or something they believe in.

INFPs They do not like following all the rules and regulations, but they are not overtly rebellious. They seek to get things done in their own style.

INFPs, HEALER IDEALISTS, according to Keirsey (www.keirsey.com), are the gentle poets of the universe. They are especially attuned to issues of good and evil, often having been led to believe their "fantasy" world in childhood was an evil abstraction. Many HEALERS have unhappy childhoods.

They represent only 1% of the population and are often misunderstood by those they incarnate with. INFP's are of the most rare of the 16 personalities found in modern culture. INFP's may appear to have been imported from another galaxy! They often consider themselves "weird" and feel quite isolated from society and some report feeling "alone" in large groups of people.

HEALERS are the peacemakers of the world. With their gentle sensitivty and their passion for the potential in those they love, they can appear to be like Don Quixotes, tilting at windmills. Despite their serene exteriors, HEALERS are intense and committed. You will find HEALERS working anywhere that people are healed by touch, talking, learnings and sharing.

INFPs are also called THE POET. In earlier classifications they would be members of the IDEALIST group, called APOLLONIAN and Choleric.

INFPs are usually talented writers. They may be awkward and uncomfortable with expressing themselves verbally, but have a wonderful ability to define and express what they're feeling on paper. INFPs also appear frequently in social service professions, such as counseling or teaching. They are at their best in situations where they're working towards the public good, and in which they don't need to use hard logic.

With the weight of the world on their shoulders, INFPs that choose careers not benefiting humanity find themselves depressed and anxious. Little concern with possessions or physical surroundings. INFP males tend to relate to women more than men.

Possible Career Paths for the INFP:

* Writers
* Musicians
* Social Activism
* Counselors / Social Workers
* Teachers / Professors
* Psychologists
* Psychiatrists
* Peace Corps
* Clergy / Religious Workers

It's worth mentioning that nearly all of the truly great writers in the world have been INFPs.

Famous INFP's:
William Shakespeare
Princess Diana
John F. Kennedy, Jr.
Nelson Mandella
Fred Rogers (Mister Rogers' Neighborhood)
Anne Frank, author (The Diary of a Young Girl)
Helen Keller, author
Laura Ingalls Wilder, author (Little House on the Prairie)
A. A. Milne, author, poet (Winnie the Pooh)
Homer, epic poet (The Iliad, The Odyssey)
Virgil (Publius Vergilius Maro), poet (The Aeneid)
Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, poet (Evangeline)
Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, former U.S. first lady
Tom Brokaw, news anchor
Carl Rogers, reflective psychologist, counselor
Audrey Hepburn, actress (Breakfast at Tiffany's)
Julia Roberts, actress (Pretty Woman)
Neil Diamond, singer/songwriter
Mary, mother of Jesus
St. John, the beloved disciple
St. Luke; physician, disciple, author

[ChrisJones]

the above post was not in my words of course

[jonhomeowner]

I love how they can talk about someone's personality when they've been dead for 2000 years.

[Nips]

yeah i saw that bit. pretty funny.

[ChrisJones]

I love how they can talk about someone's personality when they've been dead for 2000 years.

I thought that to be a little odd. Some of those figures are major characters in the bible, perhaps it was determined using their actions in words as represented. Most of their entire life stories are documented in the book.

A lot of the personality descriptions contain historic characters of some sort.

[bunniegraves]

I thought that to be a little odd. Some of those figures are major characters in the bible, perhaps it was determined using their actions in words as represented. Most of their entire life stories are documented in the book.

A lot of the personality descriptions contain historic characters of some sort.

the bible, like thats accurate :D

[ChrisJones]

the bible, like thats accurate :D

If my wife came home and said "honey I'm pregnant, but I'm sill a virgin" I woulda dropped her like a bad habit

[bunniegraves]

so much of that book has been edited, rewritten and torn apart to serve someone elses cause that i dont look at it the same as i used to.

[jonhomeowner]

If my wife came home and said "honey I'm pregnant, but I'm sill a virgin" I woulda dropped her like a bad habit
Joseph would've known if she was a virgin or not, had they been married.

[ChrisJones]

Joseph would've known if she was a virgin or not, had they been married.

Joseph was a hard working man and you know he came home with a big dick ready to relieve some tension. But mary was nowhere to be found. She was probably the town whore.

She comes up with a bullshit story about angles. Maybe nobody had the birds-and-bees talk with joseph. Who knows?

3 dudes that "might be the father" show up with gifts. Wisemen my ass! They felt guilty.

The kid is born and sexually assaulted by his family. Thus, he runs away from home. 35 years later he still believes Mary's bullshit "son of god" story. He converts a bunch of jews. Is killed by power hungry jealous retards. End. Or, the beginning of a lot more bullshit.

Thanks mary, thanks a lot.

Disturbing and twisted she was.

[jonhomeowner]

Joseph was a hard working man and you know he came home with a big dick ready to relieve some tension. But mary was nowhere to be found. She was probably the town whore.
I see. But were they married when she became pregnant? I don't think they were. I'm pretty sure they became married afterwards to cover it up.

Which means she was a virgin (at the time).

[ChrisJones]

I see. But were they married when she became pregnant? I don't think they were. I'm pretty sure they became married afterwards to cover it up.

Which means she was a virgin (at the time).

They actually were never really married. When mary got pregnant they were "betrothed" which is legally binding as marriage. It's like "common law" marriage.

It's a little conflicting because the bible says they got "divorced quietly", but I thought divorce was a term only for marriage. There was never a mention of marriage.

Anyways, they didn't consumate the "betrothal"

And unless he did sneaky sneaky stinky stinky with his fingers on her while she slept at 3am, and was familiar with female anatomy, there's no way he could be 100 percent sure she was a virgin.

[jonhomeowner]

They actually were never really married. When mary got pregnant they were "betrothed" which is legally binding as marriage. It's like "common law" marriage.
Which means they were married.

It's a little conflicting because the bible says they got "divorced quietly", but I thought divorce was a term only for marriage. There was never a mention of marriage.
You just said they were married.

And it's not "common law" marriage, anyway. It's simply a legally binding contract of ownership back then.

Matthew 1:19 refers to Joseph as "husband"

Anyways, they didn't consumate the "betrothal"
Then she was a, as The Bible says, a virgin.

[ChrisJones]

If she lied about angels thing then she wasn't a virgin.

Which discounts billions of people. The jews might have been right this whole time!!!!

Don't forget after the divorce Joseph claimed he was visited by angels. And again, he lies to everybody as well as himself to justify having a relationship with a whore.

[ChrisJones]

I might not know much, but I do know you need a sperm to get a fetus.

Let's assume Mary is telling the truth.

According to Mary, God touched her belly and got her pregnant. Godly sperm?

Your baby would be retarded with just half DNA, if it could survive at all.

But I thought god invented DNA....

If jesus was his son, than it's god's DNA right?

Ok this begs the question, where did god get his DNA?

Did god one day wake up and say "I'm going to give myself DNA" or "I'm going to make some of my special godly DNA"

It's like the chicken and egg.
Which came first?
God or his DNA?

If the DNA came first, who created god?

If god came first, what's this DNA formula based off of?

[jonhomeowner]

If she lied about angels thing then she wasn't a virgin.
No, even if she lied about the angels and was impregnated by someone else, she's still a virgin, as The Bible says.

See, where you're wrong/confused is here:

In Biblical times (thus the way it's used in The Bible), "virgin" meant one who had yet to consumate her marriage. You had to have sex inside of wedlock to no longer be a virgin. Sex outside of a marriage did not count towards such.

So, until she did it with Joseph (after the marriage), she was a virgin.

[Dan]

The jews might have been right this whole time!!!!

never. say that. again.

[ChrisJones]

No, even if she lied about the angels and was impregnated by someone else, she's still a virgin, as The Bible says.

See, where you're wrong/confused is here:

In Biblical times (thus the way it's used in The Bible), "virgin" meant one who had yet to consumate her marriage. You had to have sex inside of wedlock to no longer be a virgin. Sex outside of a marriage did not count towards such.

So, until she did it with Joseph (after the marriage), she was a virgin.

The definition of virgin changes. thank you.

one day you will worship me as a god jon

[jonhomeowner]

The definition of virgin changes. thank you.
It sure does, but I never once said I was using the modern definition. I, in fact, made sure to specify that I was using the Biblical definition.

Then she was a, as The Bible says, a virgin.

and

Which means she was a virgin (at the time).

See where it says "as The Bible says"? Do you also see where it says "at the time"?

I never said I was using a modern definition. I was always using The Biblical one and I even implied that in my writing. I made sure to never make it seem like I was using the modern definition. I suppose that was foolish of me, because you are too stupid to understand the difference.

And it doesn't matter if the definition of has word changed or not since the word is written in The Bible, and it was written ~2k years ago. Therefore, the word, as written in The Bible means what it meant then, and if you want to discuss it, you should only be using it in the context it was used there.

It's okay to be wrong, you can admit it. Be a big boy.

one day you will worship me as a god jon
LOL. Not when you are so full of fallacies and shit.

And probably phallacies, too. Ha.

[ChrisJones]

you tricked me!

one day you will come around jon. This is a "war" of attrition.

[ChrisJones]

War:

* Alliances and drawing other people into the two sides.
* Taking, defending and attacking of positions.
* Battles and skirmishes, that become ends in their own right.
* Massive commitment of resources to the war.
* Extreme goals and actions that can include total extermination of the other side.

[jonhomeowner]

War:

* Alliances and drawing other people into the two sides.
* Taking, defending and attacking of positions.
* Battles and skirmishes, that become ends in their own right.
* Massive commitment of resources to the war.
* Extreme goals and actions that can include total extermination of the other side.
Yeah, I own a dictionary. Thanks, though.

[ChrisJones]

You enjoy confrontation.

[jonhomeowner]

You enjoy confrontation.
No, no. Don't get me wrong... It's the thought that counts. You thought I didn't own a dictionary, so you posted a definition for me.

Thanks, man. That means a lot to me.

[ChrisJones]

it wasnt a definition

[oldsklgrl]

Apparently the love of confrontation is one thing you two have in common...oh that and you both own dictionaries. And that is what I have learned from the "Attention ChrisJones" thread. ;)

[ChrisJones]

I'm passionate about my ideas and jon is destructive of opposing ideas.

We make a complete circle.

[jonhomeowner]

it wasnt a definition
O RLY?

[jonhomeowner]

I'm passionate about my ideas and you are destructive of opposing ideas.

We make a complete circle.
I am passionate of my ideas, and you are destructive of opposing ideas.

We make a complete circle.

[ChrisJones]

Yeah, I own a dictionary. Thanks, though.

Apparently the love of confrontation is one thing you two have in common...oh that and you both own dictionaries. And that is what I have learned from the "Attention ChrisJones" thread. ;)
I prefer win-win situations. Unfortunately I can't have that here.

[ChrisJones]

I am passionate of my ideas, and you are destructive of opposing ideas.

We make a complete circle.

Uhh, why don't you spout some ideas and see what I do?

Jon you don't speak your mind where you stand. You only speak it on what you are against.

If you were more passionate you would at least try to convince me of your ideas(name calling isn't very convincing).

[jonhomeowner]

Uhh, why don't you spout some ideas and see what I do?

Jon you don't speak your mind where you stand. You only speak it on what you are against.

If you were more passionate you would at least try to convince me of your ideas(name calling isn't very convincing).
I have no interest in convincing you that I'm right.

I may be passionate, but I save my strength for the real fights... The ones that have to continue to be fought for: equal rights (for all sexual orientations, genders, races, etc) and reproductive rights issues.

[ChrisJones]

So there really is a tiny beating heart in there somewhere? Aww.

Well it looks like we are on the same side on those issues.

You improve your credibility somewhat when people know where you are coming from. It improves the respect you recieve from people. It's easier to trust somebody when you can relate to them somehow.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I may be passionate, but I save my strength for the real fights... The ones that have to continue to be fought for: equal rights (for all sexual orientations, genders, races, etc) and reproductive rights issues.

Don't forget full frontal nudity. Thank you.

[jonhomeowner]

Don't forget full frontal nudity. Thank you.
Yeah, I do stand up for the rights of people to be completely naked, too.

[Dan]

Don't forget full frontal nudity. Thank you.

run for office

[bunniegraves]

oh jesus, leave mary alone.