Rudy Giuliani

[lucyknox]

:eek::eek::eek::eek:!!!! end rant


Any other points of view welcome...

~xoxo

Lucy

[DEVIN 75]

This is no unknown news flash. There is a carcinogenic bubble with a five mile radius from the towers remains. What's he going to do about that? How many people continue to be sick without anywhere to turn?

That's all I have to say.

[ChrisJones]

What's he going to do about that? How many people continue to be sick without anywhere to turn?
Rudy left office in 2002. It's Mayor Bloomburg's concern now.

So....a few things to consider about Rudy.

I read "America's mayor, America's president? The strange career of Rudy Giuliani"

Rudy's lead on this campaign is proof the conservatives are losing their say in washington. Rudy is anything but, a conservative. He's a careles liberal with an "R" next to his name. His leadership qualities to micromanage a city were certainly awesome. But what does a mayor know about foreign policy?

It wasn't quite a 5 mile radius, but certainly asbestos hot spots were plentifull on the roofs of nearby buildings. It was left to those building owners to clean up. They weren't happy.

He does support the war and blindly follows Bush(jealousy of power?). He was a democrat for the first 20 years of his political life. His switch in the 80's to republican was looked upon as a ploy to get a better job in the attorney's office.

Rudy is pro-choice. He supported it in his first run for mayor in 89 and reaffirmed it at the last primary debate. Just 2 weeks ago the archbishop of St. Louis denied Rudy communion because of his abortion stance.

Rudy supports illegal immigrants gaining worker status and rejects the idea of "a wall in texas"

Rudy was famous for offering benefits to city workers with same sex domestic partners.

Rudy supports stem cell research.

During his infamous crime crackdown in NYC he pissed off the NRA by banning all forms of concealed weapons in the city and later cancelling the renewal of 80 percent of the city's gun vending permits.

Rudy's first marriage was to his second cousin.
His father was involved in organized crime and an active member of the mafia.

Rudy cheated on his second wife multiple times with staff members and secretaries. In 2000 he divorced and left his mansion to live with a gay couple in a tiny apartment. He later married one of his staff.

Rudy's net worth was $2m before the 9/11. During his speeches for the next 6 months, he acquired $11m in speaking fees. In this regard he profited from the attacks.

Rudy's kids do not have contact with their father. Appearantly after the divorce, he lost custody and missed many important days in their lives.

Why would the republicans want to vote for this guy? Is it because he is a symbol? Is it because he was the hero that saved NYC from itself? Is it because he supports fossil fuel consumption and coal burning plants, the heaviest emmiters of greenhouse gases?(take that gore!) Is it his charming personality and not necessarily his views?

or is it because some of his views, being mostly liberal, actually make sense, and Rudy has carefully disguised himself as something he's not.

A true conservative would hate this man.
A true liberal would find him to be a traitor to the democratic party.

I am not following the republican primary so I am confused as to why this guy is leading. Do the other candidates suck?

[thebigother]

He's a fucking Fascist and opourtunistic scum. It's very safe to say that I hate this man.

[jonhomeowner]

Yeah, he's all for a troop surge in Iraq. Fuck him.

[oioipunkrawkgrrl]

as agnostic front says,"Giuliani, Giuliani, Giuliani, fuck you!"
i dont see how republicans would like this guy, his family hates him, he cheats on his spouses, and is pro-choice. Aren't most republicans all about family values?

[green_machine]

Rudy left office in 2002. It's Mayor Bloomburg's concern now.

So....a few things to consider about Rudy.

I read "America's mayor, America's president? The strange career of Rudy Giuliani"

Rudy's lead on this campaign is proof the conservatives are losing their say in washington. Rudy is anything but, a conservative. He's a careles liberal with an "R" next to his name. His leadership qualities to micromanage a city were certainly awesome. But what does a mayor know about foreign policy?

It wasn't quite a 5 mile radius, but certainly asbestos hot spots were plentifull on the roofs of nearby buildings. It was left to those building owners to clean up. They weren't happy.

He does support the war and blindly follows Bush(jealousy of power?). He was a democrat for the first 20 years of his political life. His switch in the 80's to republican was looked upon as a ploy to get a better job in the attorney's office.

Rudy is pro-choice. He supported it in his first run for mayor in 89 and reaffirmed it at the last primary debate. Just 2 weeks ago the archbishop of St. Louis denied Rudy communion because of his abortion stance.

Rudy supports illegal immigrants gaining worker status and rejects the idea of "a wall in texas"

Rudy was famous for offering benefits to city workers with same sex domestic partners.

Rudy supports stem cell research.

During his infamous crime crackdown in NYC he pissed off the NRA by banning all forms of concealed weapons in the city and later cancelling the renewal of 80 percent of the city's gun vending permits.

Rudy's first marriage was to his second cousin.
His father was involved in organized crime and an active member of the mafia.

Rudy cheated on his second wife multiple times with staff members and secretaries. In 2000 he divorced and left his mansion to live with a gay couple in a tiny apartment. He later married one of his staff.

Rudy's net worth was $2m before the 9/11. During his speeches for the next 6 months, he acquired $11m in speaking fees. In this regard he profited from the attacks.

Rudy's kids do not have contact with their father. Appearantly after the divorce, he lost custody and missed many important days in their lives.

Why would the republicans want to vote for this guy? Is it because he is a symbol? Is it because he was the hero that saved NYC from itself? Is it because he supports fossil fuel consumption and coal burning plants, the heaviest emmiters of greenhouse gases?(take that gore!) Is it his charming personality and not necessarily his views?

or is it because some of his views, being mostly liberal, actually make sense, and Rudy has carefully disguised himself as something he's not.

A true conservative would hate this man.
A true liberal would find him to be a traitor to the democratic party.

I am not following the republican primary so I am confused as to why this guy is leading. Do the other candidates suck?

They'd vote for him because he has an "R" next to his name. No, I'm serious! Die hard republicans will vote for a republican candidate just because of the R (I've known a ton of people like this). If he is voted in I don't think it would be a huge deal, he'd be kicked right out the second he pulled a Clinton. ;)

[jonhomeowner]

Chris, he's leading because he's "America's mayor", as you know - the face of 9/11. What good Republican wouldn't want to vote for that guy?

[DEVIN 75]

Rudy left office in 2002. It's Mayor Bloomburg's concern now.

So....a few things to consider about Rudy.

I read "America's mayor, America's president? The strange career of Rudy Giuliani"

Rudy's lead on this campaign is proof the conservatives are losing their say in washington. Rudy is anything but, a conservative. He's a careles liberal with an "R" next to his name. His leadership qualities to micromanage a city were certainly awesome. But what does a mayor know about foreign policy?

It wasn't quite a 5 mile radius, but certainly asbestos hot spots were plentifull on the roofs of nearby buildings. It was left to those building owners to clean up. They weren't happy.

He does support the war and blindly follows Bush(jealousy of power?). He was a democrat for the first 20 years of his political life. His switch in the 80's to republican was looked upon as a ploy to get a better job in the attorney's office.

Rudy is pro-choice. He supported it in his first run for mayor in 89 and reaffirmed it at the last primary debate. Just 2 weeks ago the archbishop of St. Louis denied Rudy communion because of his abortion stance.

Rudy supports illegal immigrants gaining worker status and rejects the idea of "a wall in texas"

Rudy was famous for offering benefits to city workers with same sex domestic partners.

Rudy supports stem cell research.

During his infamous crime crackdown in NYC he pissed off the NRA by banning all forms of concealed weapons in the city and later cancelling the renewal of 80 percent of the city's gun vending permits.

Rudy's first marriage was to his second cousin.
His father was involved in organized crime and an active member of the mafia.

Rudy cheated on his second wife multiple times with staff members and secretaries. In 2000 he divorced and left his mansion to live with a gay couple in a tiny apartment. He later married one of his staff.

Rudy's net worth was $2m before the 9/11. During his speeches for the next 6 months, he acquired $11m in speaking fees. In this regard he profited from the attacks.

Rudy's kids do not have contact with their father. Appearantly after the divorce, he lost custody and missed many important days in their lives.

Why would the republicans want to vote for this guy? Is it because he is a symbol? Is it because he was the hero that saved NYC from itself? Is it because he supports fossil fuel consumption and coal burning plants, the heaviest emmiters of greenhouse gases?(take that gore!) Is it his charming personality and not necessarily his views?

or is it because some of his views, being mostly liberal, actually make sense, and Rudy has carefully disguised himself as something he's not.

A true conservative would hate this man.
A true liberal would find him to be a traitor to the democratic party.

I am not following the republican primary so I am confused as to why this guy is leading. Do the other candidates suck?

Um...Mr. Buzzkill. I don't care that we was out in '02. I know Bloomburg's in. It was a jab. If you were the local leader connected with such an enormous national tragedy that still haunts a city. When your time was up would you just clean out your desk, close the door and walk away to further your political career and public standing? You were quick to defend so I must ask are you a republican or libertarian?

[jonhomeowner]

You were quick to defend so I must ask are you a republican or libertarian?
It would certainly seem that way, based on all of his posts about "personal responsibility" in the "wisdom" thread over in the General section.

According to him, anybody can become educated and rich, as long as they try.

LOL.

[ChrisJones]

Um...Mr. Buzzkill. I don't care that we was out in '02. I know Bloomburg's in. It was a jab. If you were the local leader connected with such an enormous national tragedy that still haunts a city. When your time was up would you just clean out your desk, close the door and walk away to further your political career and public standing? You were quick to defend so I must ask are you a republican or libertarian?

I'm a left libertarian.

I'm no defending him. I'm saying the responsibility is no longer his.
Why should the responsibility rest solely on Rudy after he left?
When you are done, you are done. The next guy takes the reigns.
You think that the asbestos on the roof was the only problem with the city when he left? C'mon.

Think TERM LIMITS. If a guy just kept doing the job of the mayor when he was no longer mayor, then uhh, wtf.

[ChrisJones]

According to him, anybody can become educated and rich, as long as they try.

It's possible.

While you're collecting welfare, people are actually moving up in the world. Sonofabitch!

[DEVIN 75]

I'm a left libertarian.

I'm no defending him. I'm saying the responsibility is no longer his.
Why should the responsibility rest solely on Rudy after he left?
When you are done, you are done. The next guy takes the reigns.
You think that the asbestos on the roof was the only problem with the city when he left? C'mon.

Think TERM LIMITS. If a guy just kept doing the job of the mayor when he was no longer mayor, then uhh, wtf.

It's just a principal within my own being. I had friends there. I knew people who went to help as well. Quite a few remained after their time was up. Their personal "on duty" call was over but they still remained. There are some things you just can't walk away from in life regardless of title. If you act like you genuinely care, at some time in your life you will be called on to prove it. You can't punch a clock with one of the greatest tragedies of this decade.

[ChrisJones]

Bloomburg has done a better job with the city than Rudy. If Rudy had stuck around, things wouldn't be as good as they are now.

[ChrisJones]

asbestos on a few roofs isnt a national tragedy

[jonhomeowner]

It's possible.

While you're collecting welfare, people are actually moving up in the world. Sonofabitch!
Yeah, that's true. And then they crash right back down due to one thing that goes wrong that isn't under their control.

Face it, your arguments are weak. You have no proof that anybody can move up in the world. Most people can't.

Hell, your arguments are so weak, you even had incorrect information about medical bills, which are one of the highest causes of debt AND bankruptcy.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

It's possible.

While you're collecting welfare, people are actually moving up in the world. Sonofabitch!


People on welfare can actually move up in the world too..... There is a welfare program here in Santa Cruz that cuts off in 5 years. In the meantime, they require you to get an education (your choice), and prove your getting good grades every semester. If you start flaking out, they take the money away. That way they don't have people sitting around having more kids to increase their welfare check. It's a good idea, and it makes welfare a positive thing, not at all a negative.

Like Jon said, an unforseen hospital stay can wipe out any honest, hard-working individual. Now that individual can get assistance from the government and actually improve his educational status in the meantime. I hate the stereotype that people on welfare must be lazy....hate it I tell you.

[ChrisJones]

People on welfare can actually move up in the world too..... There is a welfare program here in Santa Cruz that cuts off in 5 years. In the meantime, they require you to get an education (your choice), and prove your getting good grades every semester. If you start flaking out, they take the money away. That way they don't have people sitting around having more kids to increase their welfare check. It's a good idea, and it makes welfare a positive thing, not at all a negative.

Now that sounds like something I would support. It is good for the community and empowers the individual, but of course, jon believes you can't better yourself in this world.

Like Jon said, an unforseen hospital stay can wipe out any honest, hard-working individual. Now that individual can get assistance from the government and actually improve his educational status in the meantime. I hate the stereotype that people on welfare must be lazy....hate it I tell you.
Good point. And I respect your opinion. I don't believe people on welfare are lazy, only jon.

[jonhomeowner]

Good point. And I respect your opinion. I don't believe people on welfare are lazy, only jon.
Only me, what?

You're the one that talked about people being lazy and saying that only lazy people can't move up in the world. You're the one that said taking from the system is lazy. You've definitely stated that people on welfare are lazy.

[DEVIN 75]

asbestos on a few roofs isnt a national tragedy

Again your only analyzing what you want to see in a statement and your missing the point. Damn, forget it!!

[ChrisJones]

He was a republican mayor.

Not Nelson Mandella

[jonhomeowner]

Freeeeeee - eeee Rudy Giuliani. We've got to freeeeee - eeee Rudy Giuliani! *music*

[ChrisJones]

you are too funny, can i pinch your cheeks?

[jonhomeowner]

you are too funny, can i pinch your cheeks?
You mean my ass cheeks, don't you? I knew it!

I was right when I called you a nazi, and obviously I was right when I called you gay, too! Nobody can hide their true selves from me!

[green_machine]

He was a republican mayor.

Not Nelson Mandella

Have you ever seen The Boondocks by Aaron McGruder?

[ChrisJones]

Have you ever seen The Boondocks by Aaron McGruder?
It sounds familiar. Why?

[thebigother]

He was a republican mayor.

Not Nelson Mandella
A rebuplican mayor of a city that was directly effected by the largest national tragedy your country has ever had. I mean, you may as well be saying that Boris Yelsen was just the mayor of Moscow.

[jonhomeowner]

A rebuplican mayor of a city that was directly effected by the largest national tragedy your country has ever had. I mean, you may as well be saying that Boris Yelsen was just the mayor of Moscow.
He was the mayor of Moscow? *SHOCK*

[ChrisJones]

I'm just saying he's not a patron saint. I can't think of many people that after leaving office still try to butt in on local political matters. And the last person I would expect to stick around and "help people" would be a republican mayor.

Republicans are notorious for leaving huge messes. Just look at what the next president is going to have to clean up(unless it's a republican again, but lets not got there). Rudy did all that he could and then he handed over the reigns, I'm not surprised at all.

And like I stated earlier, there was a lot more on his plate than asbestos on buildings. I'm sure he left a lot of unfinished work for the next guy.

[DEVIN 75]

I'm just saying he's not a patron saint. I can't think of many people that after leaving office still try to butt in on local political matters. And the last person I would expect to stick around and "help people" would be a republican mayor.

Republicans are notorious for leaving huge messes. Just look at what the next president is going to have to clean up(unless it's a republican again, but lets not got there). Rudy did all that he could and then he handed over the reigns, I'm not surprised at all.

And like I stated earlier, there was a lot more on his plate than asbestos on buildings. I'm sure he left a lot of unfinished work for the next guy.

So you see 50% of my point again??? :confused:

[ChrisJones]

So you see 50% of my point again??? :confused:

I wasn't defending the guy by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm sure there are countless reasons to the roof issue. Let's just not assume and settle on one without gathering all the facts first.

[DEVIN 75]

I wasn't defending the guy by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm sure there are countless reasons to the roof issue. Let's just not assume and settle on one without gathering all the facts first.

It's not an assumption or fact based area of humanity I'm referencing. I think you've misunderstood the meaning behind my grievance. It's okay, I'm sure it would be understood better in person versus over pixels.

[ChrisJones]

Sorry I'm difficult.

Check out

"INSF"

On google

Maybe I should use that as a disclaimer on all my posts?

[jonhomeowner]

Sorry I'm difficult.

Check out

"INSF"

On google

Maybe I should use that as a disclaimer on all my posts?
"STUPID" would work better.

[ChrisJones]

"STUPID" would work better.
For the intelligence you claim you have, you sure have a very unintelligent way of using it.

I'm not reposting to anything you say in this thread jon, out of respect(something that's not part of your "intelligence" package) for other users.

[Dan]

Chris, he's leading because he's "America's mayor", as you know - the face of 9/11
wait....what about
http://www.christianmedia.us/images2/devilface.jpg

[jonhomeowner]

wait....what about
http://www.christianmedia.us/images2/devilface.jpg
No, no, the towers are just the figureheads of 9/11.

[jonhomeowner]

For the intelligence you claim you have, you sure have a very unintelligent way of using it.

I'm not reposting to anything you say in this thread jon, out of respect(something that's not part of your "intelligence" package) for other users.
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

WAAAAAHHHHH!

Want a pacifier, you fucking baby?

[Dan]

i hate rudy. i saw him on tv last night saying that he was supporting the red sox in the series. fuck him. fuck him fuck him fuck him (i'm from nyc).

i also find it funny how everyone forgets the 7 and a half years he was hated right up and before the attacks. the guy is a dick.

did you hear about the fundraiser he had where you had to donate $9.11?
LOL

[Dan]

No, no, the towers are just the figureheads of 9/11.

i was referring to the "devil face"

[jonhomeowner]

i was referring to the "devil face"
Oh.

I don't usually see images in things, because I don't like to read into things. But now that you pointed it out, I see it.

Maybe Rudy is the devil?

The antichrist that will supposedly get elected to the leadership of a world power?

[ChrisJones]

I don't like to read into things.

You're a liar.


BUSTED

[Sheerterror77]

Chris, he's leading because he's "America's mayor", as you know - the face of 9/11. What good Republican wouldn't want to vote for that guy?

America's mayor my ass! Face of 9/11 my ass! I hate how he tries to act like he survived the fucking attacks as if he was in the building - that's bullshit!

First off, his support is slowly falling and if he does when the primaries it probably means the vote was rigged in his favor - I wouldn't be suprised - his law firm defends a lot of major oil companies (and fox news)

What "good" republican wouldn't want to vote for Rudy? A Republican who actually believes in what Republicans used to stand for before their party was hijacked by a bunch of Rockefeller style NeoCons!

And what did they used to stand for? Limited Government ! But Rudy is for expanding government... he wants to give the troops training in NATION BUILDING! He's a cousin-fucking fascist piece of shit... and a cross dresser (probably the cross dressing part is his only appeal)

Republicans believe in 2nd Amendment rights - yet when Rudy was Mayor in New York he restricted those rights. He pretends he has changed and has tried so hard to appear to be the guns right advocate of the election that he supported giving "Guns to the Blind!", heh.

Rudy Giuliani is a piece of shit. And so is Huckabee and Romney and McCain... and pretty much all of the GOP candidates this year except for Ron Paul.

[Sheerterror77]

I am not following the republican primary so I am confused as to why this guy is leading. Do the other candidates suck?

No, because the party has Ron Paul and his policies kick Rudy in the ass, you should have spent that research looking up him instead.

-Ron Paul is against the War in Iraq and has been speaking out against it before it even begun (like since 1998)
-He is for getting rid of the unconstitutional IRS (the Income Tax) and repealing the improperly ratified 16th Amendment
(for more information on how the IRS is a fraud check out Aaron Russo's movie "America: Freedom to Fascism" - Ron Paul is in it toward the middle)
- He advocates Limited Government
-He wants to restore the freedoms that the government has taken away from us!
-He voted against the Patriot Act - twice and makes bills that restrict the government from spying on innocent Americans without a warrant
-He will never suspend Habeous Corpus like the Patriot Act did
-He has never voted for a Tax raise - ever. And is known in Congress as "The Tax Payers best friend"
- Even though he is personally opposed to Abortion - he believes it is a states rights issue
-He will let the states choose whether or not to legalize drugs
-He is the "Pro-Hemp" candidate and supports medical marajuana.
-He ran as the Libertarian candidate for President in 1988
-He is against the federal funding of a lot of different wasteful programs and plans to eliminate many of them. That does not mean the end of welfare, as states and local governments would be able to implement these programs if people elected candidates who supported those issues. If these programs were done at this level they would be much more efficient.
-He does not accept the Congressional Pension money

Google Ron Paul to learn more about him! His message is excellent and enlightening...

He is the only man in congress I have heard admit that America is becoming more and more of a fascist police state, and he is 100% correct.

[Sheerterror77]

A rebuplican mayor of a city that was directly effected by the largest national tragedy your country has ever had. I mean, you may as well be saying that Boris Yelsen was just the mayor of Moscow.

9/11 was not the greatest national tragedy - it was that mother fucker George W. Bush and his cronies taking office.

[jonhomeowner]

America's mayor my ass! Face of 9/11 my ass! I hate how he tries to act like he survived the fucking attacks as if he was in the building - that's bullshit!

First off, his support is slowly falling and if he does when the primaries it probably means the vote was rigged in his favor - I wouldn't be suprised - his law firm defends a lot of major oil companies (and fox news)

What "good" republican wouldn't want to vote for Rudy? A Republican who actually believes in what Republicans used to stand for before their party was hijacked by a bunch of Rockefeller style NeoCons!

And what did they used to stand for? Limited Government ! But Rudy is for expanding government... he wants to give the troops training in NATION BUILDING! He's a cousin-fucking fascist piece of shit... and a cross dresser (probably the cross dressing part is his only appeal)

Republicans believe in 2nd Amendment rights - yet when Rudy was Mayor in New York he restricted those rights. He pretends he has changed and has tried so hard to appear to be the guns right advocate of the election that he supported giving "Guns to the Blind!", heh.

Rudy Giuliani is a piece of shit. And so is Huckabee and Romney and McCain... and pretty much all of the GOP candidates this year except for Ron Paul.
Yes. I know. But the Republicans don't.

[batter10456]

as agnostic front says,"Giuliani, Giuliani, Giuliani, fuck you!"
i dont see how republicans would like this guy, his family hates him, he cheats on his spouses, and is pro-choice. Aren't most republicans all about family values?

Correction, the Religious Right is about "so called family values."

[batter10456]

9/11 was not the greatest national tragedy - it was that mother fucker George W. Bush and his cronies taking office.

So, you are one of those crazy Ron Paul people, huh?

[jonhomeowner]

So, you are one of those crazy Ron Paul people, huh?
What does Ron Paul have to do with hating Bush?

[batter10456]

What does Ron Paul have to do with hating Bush?

There is a certain segment of Ron Paul's camp that are just absolutely NUTS. Judging by the terminology she used, she falls into that category. Every political party has cronies. It is apart of being a "politician."

[ChrisJones]

What does Ron Paul have to do with hating Bush?
My guess is his libertarian "I hate the government" ideology. I just read a poll that said he is least mentioned candidate on talk radio network talking points.

[thebigother]

No, because the party has Ron Paul and his policies kick Rudy in the ass, you should have spent that research looking up him instead.

-Ron Paul is against the War in Iraq and has been speaking out against it before it even begun (like since 1998)
-He is for getting rid of the unconstitutional IRS (the Income Tax) and repealing the improperly ratified 16th Amendment
(for more information on how the IRS is a fraud check out Aaron Russo's movie "America: Freedom to Fascism" - Ron Paul is in it toward the middle)
- He advocates Limited Government
-He wants to restore the freedoms that the government has taken away from us!
-He voted against the Patriot Act - twice and makes bills that restrict the government from spying on innocent Americans without a warrant
-He will never suspend Habeous Corpus like the Patriot Act did
-He has never voted for a Tax raise - ever. And is known in Congress as "The Tax Payers best friend"
- Even though he is personally opposed to Abortion - he believes it is a states rights issue
-He will let the states choose whether or not to legalize drugs
-He is the "Pro-Hemp" candidate and supports medical marajuana.
-He ran as the Libertarian candidate for President in 1988
-He is against the federal funding of a lot of different wasteful programs and plans to eliminate many of them. That does not mean the end of welfare, as states and local governments would be able to implement these programs if people elected candidates who supported those issues. If these programs were done at this level they would be much more efficient.
-He does not accept the Congressional Pension money

Google Ron Paul to learn more about him! His message is excellent and enlightening...

He is the only man in congress I have heard admit that America is becoming more and more of a fascist police state, and he is 100% correct.

You forgot the part about him being a woman hating racist homophobe, just like every other Ron Paul supporter. I hope he gets elected so all the people who voted for him are forced to deal with ass backwards (no pun intended) social policies because they were too short sighted to understand there are other issues than war and taxes.

[thebigother]

Here are few of my favourite quotes of his:

"If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action, "

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system, ' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal, "

"we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

Yeah, that's somebody I'd want to vote for. I guess somebody has to fill the void left by Strom Thurmond though.

[ChrisJones]

"woman hating racist homophobe"

haha yes, there's that. Nicely put.

[batter10456]

You forgot the part about him being a woman hating racist homophobe, just like every other Ron Paul supporter. I hope he gets elected so all the people who voted for him are forced to deal with ass backwards (no pun intended) social policies because they were too short sighted to understand there are other issues than war and taxes.


Yes, because he is against Affirmative Action and quotas, he must be a woman hating, racist and homophobe. Do you not understand that affirmative action and any quotas are inherently racist? It is REVERSE racism. Why should anyone be judged on anything BUT merit? And don't start the, "well they weren't given the same opportunity blah blah blah." If that is the case, why aren't urban white and asian kids lumped in with affirmative action and quotas? It is ALWAYS women and minorities. Nice going...

[jonhomeowner]

Yes, because he is against Affirmative Action and quotas, he must be a woman hating, racist and homophobe. Do you not understand that affirmative action and any quotas are inherently racist? It is REVERSE racism. Why should anyone be judged on anything BUT merit? And don't start the, "well they weren't given the same opportunity blah blah blah." If that is the case, why aren't urban white and asian kids lumped in with affirmative action and quotas? It is ALWAYS women and minorities. Nice going...
It's not about being urban, it's about the fact that we forcibly kept certain groups of people down for hundreds of years, and you can't simply, magically fix that in 50 years.

Anyway, poor people in general have a ton of opportunities via all sorts-of programs that don't rely on race or gender, anyway.

[thebigother]

Yes, because he is against Affirmative Action and quotas, he must be a woman hating, racist and homophobe. Do you not understand that affirmative action and any quotas are inherently racist? It is REVERSE racism. Why should anyone be judged on anything BUT merit? And don't start the, "well they weren't given the same opportunity blah blah blah." If that is the case, why aren't urban white and asian kids lumped in with affirmative action and quotas? It is ALWAYS women and minorities. Nice going...
Who said I support affermative action laws? Not that anything you said has to do with the reality of such laws in the first place (and that reality of course being that affirmative action is only used as a tie breaker between equally qualified candidates), but where is all this coming from? You wouldn't be trying to start an argument out of nowhere, would you?
Also, what's to stop an employer's notions of merit from being influenced by race, gender, disability status, etc?

Anyways, I think Ron Paul is a racist because he's openly made racist comments, I think he's a woman hater because he's opposed to a womans right to control her body, and I think he's a homophobe because he's opposed to gay marriage even though it has no bearing on his everyday life.

[jonhomeowner]

Who said I support affermative action laws? Not that anything you said has to do with the reality of such laws in the first place (and that reality of course being that affirmative action is only used as a tie breaker between equally qualified candidates)
Actually, in America, that is untrue. You have to fill a specific quota in some places, and in others you are given incentives to do so. Employers often-times have to hire less-qualified candidates.

[ChrisJones]

If he's not qualified for the job he shouldn't be hired, black, white, or yellow. Business owners(while some are prejudice) are just looking for the best possible way to turn a profit. Good employees are very important. Unfortunately the system has taken a rather aggressive approach at assuring fairness. When left to it's own devices, it harms people.

ahh I love questioning authority...

[thebigother]

Actually, in America, that is untrue. You have to fill a specific quota in some places, and in others you are given incentives to do so. Employers often-times have to hire less-qualified candidates.
Wouldn't this become a problem in areas with disproportionately low amounts of minorities?

[jonhomeowner]

Wouldn't this become a problem in areas with disproportionately low amounts of minorities?
Yeah, but it's states themselves that set the standards. I'm sure most of them set their quota laws based on the amount of minorities in the state, or even an area.

The Federal government only sets standards about who to give Federal contracts to, based on minority employment.

[jonhomeowner]

If he's not qualified for the job he shouldn't be hired, black, white, or yellow. Business owners(while some are prejudice) are just looking for the best possible way to turn a profit. Good employees are very important. Unfortunately the system has taken a rather aggressive approach at assuring fairness. When left to it's own devices, it harms people.
But there is no way to enforce equal hiring laws without this. If somebody wants to be a racist bigot and not hire people, then they can be.

Not that I can see many minorities wanting to work for that person, either... But it's not always very blatant.

[ChrisJones]

Telling people they can't do something is a terrible way to try to change their minds.

Bigots are bigots. Only with education can they learn the error of their ways.

[batter10456]

Actually, in America, that is untrue. You have to fill a specific quota in some places, and in others you are given incentives to do so. Employers often-times have to hire less-qualified candidates.

Jon actually agrees or backs up something I say. Hell is freezing over.

[batter10456]

Who said I support affermative action laws? Not that anything you said has to do with the reality of such laws in the first place (and that reality of course being that affirmative action is only used as a tie breaker between equally qualified candidates), but where is all this coming from? You wouldn't be trying to start an argument out of nowhere, would you?
Also, what's to stop an employer's notions of merit from being influenced by race, gender, disability status, etc?

Anyways, I think Ron Paul is a racist because he's openly made racist comments, I think he's a woman hater because he's opposed to a womans right to control her body, and I think he's a homophobe because he's opposed to gay marriage even though it has no bearing on his everyday life.

I will be unfamiliar with his racist comments. Therefore, I can't comment on that. Now to the pro-choice thing... I can see both sides, I usually do not pigeon-hole myself there. I wish the government wouldn't tell someone what they can do with their own body. I can see the other side though too, and I think most females get abortions because they want to devoid themselves of the responsibility. I think that is extremely wrong... if you fuck up, you should pay the consequences. The problem that I see is that women get all of the choices even though it does take two to tango. Therefore the woman can basically hold the child hostage to the guy (and plenty of women do it). It can cause a really shitty situation, I just wish BOTH parties had a say in it, but that is just an idealistic world, and will never truly happen.

Now the gay marriage thing, I don't even know why marriage needs to matter... again, something the government does not need to be involved in. What someone does in their own privacy shouldn't matter. I just wish everyone would keep it in their bedroom and not bring it out in public. We don't need gay pride parades or people trying to be lewd in public.

[thebigother]

If paying the consequences means unfit parents raising children, then I'll go out on a limb here and say that this is one instance where I would prefer people are irresponsible. The reason men don't have as much say is because because they don't carry the fetus for as long or deal with the side effects of it (and by as long, I mean, at all). I agree the that government shouldn't be involved in marriage issue, but the reality is that they are. There wouldn't be Gay Pride parades if being gay hadn't have been considered an executeable offence since the beginnig of time and if there weren't still people who feel like somebody elses sexuality is somehow their bussiness. As for Ron Paul's racist comments:
"If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action, "

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system, ' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal, "

"we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

And now he's accpeting money from known WP organizations.

[batter10456]

If paying the consequences means unfit parents raising children, then I'll go out on a limb here and say that this is one instance where I would prefer people are irresponsible. The reason men don't have as much say is because because they don't carry the fetus for as long or deal with the side effects of it (and by as long, I mean, at all). I agree the that government shouldn't be involved in marriage issue, but the reality is that they are. There wouldn't be Gay Pride parades if being gay hadn't have been considered an executeable offence since the beginnig of time and if there weren't still people who feel like somebody elses sexuality is somehow their bussiness. As for Ron Paul's racist comments:
"If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5 percent of blacks have sensible political opinions, i.e. support the free market, individual liberty and the end of welfare and affirmative action, "

"Given the inefficiencies of what D.C. laughingly calls the `criminal justice system, ' I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal, "

"we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

And now he's accpeting money from known WP organizations.

Well, I think that by bailing people out they rarely learn anything... people need to realize that their actions have consequences. That is why I hate abortions... I feel it is a REAL easy out. Ooops, I made a mistake, let me smash this fetuses head in and flush it.

Now to the quotes. First I would like some sources of where you have found each of these quotes. I don't trust them that much, partly because anyone with an ax to grind can post a supposed quote online and try to slander someone. Also, do you have the full correspondences? I don't like quotes out of context, I need to see the full picture. They could look bad out of context, but I need to see the full picture to understand.

The first quote (out of context) seems true. It would also seem true for anyone that is robbing you. I am not sure why he said black in specific... but if a white person were robbing someone (for example), they would be QUITE fast as well. They do not want to get caught.

Second quote: I disagree with... but it is a fact that most black voters do vote for Democrats who usually believe in Affirmative Action and welfare for, "Those less fortunate." Now, I do not know why each individual black voter is voting for Democrats, I think it is an ignorant statement (out of context) because they could have valid reasons other than those issues to vote for Democrats.

Three: Another ignorant one... if he had hard data, then I wouldn't be opposed to it, but he is just making assumptions/estimates.

Fourth one: It is true... there is data out there saying that black people commit more crimes than their percentage of the population. I have seen that before, and not on WP websites. It is a fact... he just came out and said it... I don't have a problem with it.

[ChrisJones]

White privelage is stupid bullshit. Fuck you. I work for my shit at job that employees plenty of minorities. If I didn't work I'd be on the same streets as anybody else.

White privelage. haha what a joke!

It's racist individuals that are the problem. RACIST INDIVIDUALS CALL ATTENTION TO THIS CRAP. When they get called out in any industry the media reacts "THIS INDUSTRY IS RACIST" YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET RID OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, unless you propose a thought-control totalitarian state. We have no reason to be afraid of black men. They commit most of their crimes against other blacks.

Education is terrible in poor minority, especially southern, neighborhoods. It's a real terrible problem.

People think the quick fix is to point fingers. NO. That just causes arguments.
The real fix is HELPING.

Let's call this NON-SOUTHERN PUBLIC SCHOOL PRIVILEGE.

[thebigother]

Well, I think that by bailing people out they rarely learn anything... people need to realize that their actions have consequences. That is why I hate abortions... I feel it is a REAL easy out. Ooops, I made a mistake, let me smash this fetuses head in and flush it.

Now to the quotes. First I would like some sources of where you have found each of these quotes. I don't trust them that much, partly because anyone with an ax to grind can post a supposed quote online and try to slander someone. Also, do you have the full correspondences? I don't like quotes out of context, I need to see the full picture. They could look bad out of context, but I need to see the full picture to understand.

The first quote (out of context) seems true. It would also seem true for anyone that is robbing you. I am not sure why he said black in specific... but if a white person were robbing someone (for example), they would be QUITE fast as well. They do not want to get caught.

Second quote: I disagree with... but it is a fact that most black voters do vote for Democrats who usually believe in Affirmative Action and welfare for, "Those less fortunate." Now, I do not know why each individual black voter is voting for Democrats, I think it is an ignorant statement (out of context) because they could have valid reasons other than those issues to vote for Democrats.

Three: Another ignorant one... if he had hard data, then I wouldn't be opposed to it, but he is just making assumptions/estimates.

Fourth one: It is true... there is data out there saying that black people commit more crimes than their percentage of the population. I have seen that before, and not on WP websites. It is a fact... he just came out and said it... I don't have a problem with it.

All of the quotes are from his news letter, Freedom Watch. If you're that sceptical you can go to library and pour over Microfilms looking for inconsistantcies.


Fourth one: It is true... there is data out there saying that black people commit more crimes than their percentage of the population. I have seen that before, and not on WP websites. It is a fact... he just came out and said it... I don't have a problem with it
Where he (and you) screwed up here is ignoring the reality that blacks also disproportionately live in poverty. Poor white people also commit more crimes than rich white people, just like poor black people commit more crimes than rich black people. This very clearly shows that economic background has more to do with criminality than race.

[thebigother]

White privelage is stupid bullshit. Fuck you. I work for my shit at job that employees plenty of minorities. If I didn't work I'd be on the same streets as anybody else.

White privelage. haha what a joke!

It's racist individuals that are the problem. RACIST INDIVIDUALS CALL ATTENTION TO THIS CRAP. When they get called out in any industry the media reacts "THIS INDUSTRY IS RACIST" YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET RID OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS, unless you propose a thought-control totalitarian state. We have no reason to be afraid of black men. They commit most of their crimes against other blacks.

Education is terrible in poor minority, especially southern, neighborhoods. It's a real terrible problem.

People think the quick fix is to point fingers. NO. That just causes arguments.
The real fix is HELPING.

Let's call this NON-SOUTHERN PUBLIC SCHOOL PRIVILEGE.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/zachgreene016/FuckYouCracker.jpg

[ChrisJones]

This very clearly shows that economic background has more to do with criminality than race.

there's a great book called "Fear, why Americans are afraid of the wrong things" that touches basis on this topic.

[ChrisJones]

Where the minorities live:http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ThematicMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-geo_id=01000US&-tm_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_M00628&-ds_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_&-_lang=en&-format=&-CONTEXT=tm#?353,260

Where people have not passed high school:
http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/ThematicMapFramesetServlet?_bm=y&-PANEL_ID=tm_result&-tm_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_M00613&-ds_name=ACS_2006_EST_G00_&-tm_config=|b=50|l=en|t=306|zf=0.0|ms=thm_def|dw=1. 9557697048764706E7|dh=1.4455689123E7|dt=gov.census .aff.domain.map.LSRMapExtent|if=gif|cx=-1159354.4733499996|cy=7122022.5|zl=10|pz=10|bo=|bl =|ft=350:349:335:389:388:332:331|fl=403:381:204:38 0:369:379:368|g=01000US|ds=ACS_2006_EST_G00_|sb=46 |tud=false|db=040|mn=0.5|mx=55.4|cc=1|cm=1|cn=5|cb =|um=Percent|pr=1|th=ACS_2006_EST_G00_M00628|sf=N| sg=&-CONTEXT=tm&-redoLog=false&-errMsg=&-geo_id=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en

[thebigother]

There is no way this could ever be a side effect of forcibly keeping them down for 400+ years. Anybody who draws a correlation between the two must hate being white.

[ChrisJones]

You shouldn't love or hate being a skin color. Just be a decent person and love that. Even better, work to help others.

[thebigother]

http://www.dsfanboy.com/media/2006/02/Sarcasm.jpg

[jonhomeowner]

Jon actually agrees or backs up something I say. Hell is freezing over.
You're still an ignorant, racist moron. It's just that Zach is from Canada, and thus no expert on U.S. law or how it is enforced... So I figured I'd point it out to him.

[ChrisJones]

Root cause. Here's one. It's called empowering and giving free advertisemen to these people. How about the few individuals that stand up and spit racist shit because of their own insecurities? The national media zooms in on them like hawks. People with no one to turn to i.e. young folks believe that we have this race war going.

You will never be able to eliminate those few individuals. Never.

History has proven, time and again, that it only takes a small group of committed people to change the world. That's who these racist assholes are. Unfortunately, like terrorism, you can't erase them completely. Only fuel them by drawing attention. Gotta love that media.

You are right. Helping would only be a band-aid. The only true solution would be to silence them. You can't do that without freedom of speech. So the media continues to let their voices be heard.

[thebigother]

I think a good start would be explaining to people that 50 years isn't enough time to magically undo all the effect of centuries worth of institutional racism, and that like it or not, we all have to dealing with the effects of it is not the same as being held responsible for it. But hey, that's just me.

[batter10456]

You're still an ignorant, racist moron. It's just that Zach is from Canada, and thus no expert on U.S. law or how it is enforced... So I figured I'd point it out to him.

That is funny that you call everyone you disagree with racist. You can't come up with anything better? Not surprising though, I have been called a racist for a long time because I don't believe in all of the liberal, politically correct nonsense that has been spewed for far too long.

[batter10456]

Where he (and you) screwed up here is ignoring the reality that blacks also disproportionately live in poverty. Poor white people also commit more crimes than rich white people, just like poor black people commit more crimes than rich black people. This very clearly shows that economic background has more to do with criminality than race.

And that is my problem? It isn't my problem that more of them live in poverty. You can't help people that do not want to help themselves. Of course poor white people are more likely to commit crimes, but I am not the richest person around and I know it is wrong to kill someone. It is called basic decency.

[jonhomeowner]

That is funny that you call everyone you disagree with racist. You can't come up with anything better? Not surprising though, I have been called a racist for a long time because I don't believe in all of the liberal, politically correct nonsense that has been spewed for far too long.
You're racist because you don't understand race and you don't do anything to fix it because of that. Hence you are an IGNORANT racist. Some people know, but don't care. You just don't know/understand.

[jonhomeowner]

And that is my problem? It isn't my problem that more of them live in poverty. You can't help people that do not want to help themselves.
Do you really think that people don't want to help themselves? They'd love to, but they have little choice. Some have to join gangs for survival. Some don't know what else to do. Some don't know how to help themselves at all... Some feel like there is no hope.

[batter10456]

You're racist because you don't understand race and you don't do anything to fix it because of that. Hence you are an IGNORANT racist. Some people know, but don't care. You just don't know/understand.

You really are a piece of work, you know that? You are the reason why certain people dismiss racism claims. Just because I disagree with what you believe that suddenly makes me a racist. Laughable. You know what you are missing? I have not once claimed that my race or any other race is superior to another, and that is a key part of racism or a racist person. I have been here a couple of months, and I have already see you accuse more than a few people of racism. You are one of those people that just throws that out there when they can't actually use substance to defeat someone's point of view/argument.

[batter10456]

Do you really think that people don't want to help themselves? They'd love to, but they have little choice. Some have to join gangs for survival. Some don't know what else to do. Some don't know how to help themselves at all... Some feel like there is no hope.

That is bullshit... there is a segment of the population that is very content with living off of other people and just being a waste.

[jonhomeowner]

You really are a piece of work, you know that? You are the reason why certain people dismiss racism claims. Just because I disagree with what you believe that suddenly makes me a racist. Laughable.
Yeah, because you want to reinforce a system that has kept minorities down for hundreds of years and continues to do so.


You know what you are missing? I have not once claimed that my race or any other race is superior to another, and that is a key part of racism or a racist person.
Racism 100% isn't about believing one race is superior. It's about a system that derives power from a majority being in-charge. You are reinforcing this system by ignoring the fact that it exists and attempting so very hard to prove it doesn't exist... Thus, you are a racist.

You are one of those people that just throws that out there when they can't actually use substance to defeat someone's point of view/argument.
Nope. I've pointed out how you are racist time and time again. You enable a system that derives power for one race over the rest. You enable white privilege.

[jonhomeowner]

That is bullshit... there is a segment of the population that is very content with living off of other people and just being a waste.
Proof?

Yeah, you accuse me of not backing up my statements, but you provide no proof for this. I've never once heard someone say "Gee, it's nice to live off of welfare, I love abusing the system." Do you know why? Because it's NOT nice to live off of welfare. I know people who are on welfare and have decent jobs... And they still find it hard to get by.

It seems like your ilk loves to throw around stuff about how "great" welfare is and how people "abuse the system" because it helps out so much or whatever. Fuck that, it doesn't help out nearly enough in so many cases.

The only people that MIGHT benefit off of it are heavy-duty drug dealers making a ton of money tax free and thus getting a ton of money from welfare because it looks like they're completely poor. But that is a very, very, VERY small minority, and I can't even prove any of those people exist.

[batter10456]

Yeah, because you want to reinforce a system that has kept minorities down for hundreds of years and continues to do so.



Racism 100% isn't about believing one race is superior. It's about a system that derives power from a majority being in-charge. You are reinforcing this system by ignoring the fact that it exists and attempting so very hard to prove it doesn't exist... Thus, you are a racist.


Nope. I've pointed out how you are racist time and time again. You enable a system that derives power for one race over the rest. You enable white privilege.

Dude, you are hilarious, you really are.

Racism is about superiority. That is the KEY aspect of superiority. I bet if you go and look up the definition of racism you will find that I am correct and that it makes no mention of "system." I didn't know that when I go to class that it is all white kids... I mean, if we are truly oppressing minorities, why are we letting them into colleges? Why do they have professional jobs? This shouldn't happen, the majority should have all of the jobs! Do you see how ridiculous you are? There are plenty of minorities in pretty good positions in regards to jobs... and I bet you they had to work hard for it. But they did it, they put in the effort, they did it. If you try hard enough, put enough effort in and are smart enough, a college will accept you and you can advance. It doesn't matter if you are white, black, Asian or any other race that you can come up. To try to argue what you are arguing is foolish. And if the system won't accept them into a college they can always go to a black college (if they are black).

See above, racism has nothing to do with the "system." The "system" that you speak is trying its hardest to make everyone "equal" even though there is no such thing as true equality. Everyone has a different set of circumstances. Legislating "equality" just makes people more bitter about it, and you can't FORCE someone to think a certain way or hire a certain way. It is ridiculous. And before you say, there is no such thing as two equal candidates, there are always differences.

[batter10456]

Proof?

Yeah, you accuse me of not backing up my statements, but you provide no proof for this. I've never once heard someone say "Gee, it's nice to live off of welfare, I love abusing the system." Do you know why? Because it's NOT nice to live off of welfare. I know people who are on welfare and have decent jobs... And they still find it hard to get by.

It seems like your ilk loves to throw around stuff about how "great" welfare is and how people "abuse the system" because it helps out so much or whatever. Fuck that, it doesn't help out nearly enough in so many cases.

The only people that MIGHT benefit off of it are heavy-duty drug dealers making a ton of money tax free and thus getting a ton of money from welfare because it looks like they're completely poor. But that is a very, very, VERY small minority, and I can't even prove any of those people exist.

The people that came into the supermarket I worked at that provided food stamps and getting into their Yukon Denali's sure didn't seem to mind...

[jonhomeowner]

Dude, you are hilarious, you really are.

Racism is about superiority. That is the KEY aspect of superiority. I bet if you go and look up the definition of racism you will find that I am correct and that it makes no mention of "system."
Really?

2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.

That's a system. Whether it's written down in the law or not, it's a system.

And that is just a dictionary definition. As much as definitions are great and all, when it comes to sociology, there is more to the picture than a dictionary definition.

From the Wikipedia article (which has a shitload of references, so there is little question to the authenticity):

Some sociologists have defined racism as a system of group privilege. In Portraits of White Racism David Wellman (1993) has defined racism as "culturally sanctioned beliefs, which, regardless of intentions involved, defend the advantages whites have because of the subordinated position of racial minorities,” (Wellman 1993: x). Sociologists Noel Cazenave and Darlene Alvarez Maddern define racism as “...a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy. Racist systems include, but cannot be reduced to, racial bigotry,” (Cazenave and Maddern 1999: 42). Sociologist and former American Sociological Association president Joe Feagin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Feagin) argues that the United States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) can be characterized as a "total racist society" because racism is used to organize every social institution (Feagin 2000, p. 16). More recently, Feagin has articulated a comprehensive theory of racial oppression in the U.S. in his book Systemic Racism: A Theory of Oppression (Routledge, 2006). Feagin examines how major institutions have been built upon racial oppression which was not an accident of history, but was created intentionally by white Americans. In Feagin's view, white Americans labored hard to create a system of racial oppression in the 17th century and have worked diligently to maintain the system ever since. While Feagin acknowledges that changes have occurred in this racist system over the centuries, he contends that key and fundamental elements have been reproduced over nearly four centuries, and that U.S. institutions today reflect the racialized hierarchy created in the 17th century. Today, as in the past, racial oppression is not just a surface-level feature of this society, but rather pervades, permeates, and interconnects all major social groups, networks, and institutions across the society. Feagin's definition stands in sharp contrast to psychological definitions that assume racism is an "attitude" or an irrational form of bigotry that exists apart from the organization of social structure.

I really suggest you read up on theories of racism before you continue this discussion...Or you're going to look like a complete idiot.

I didn't know that when I go to class that it is all white kids... I mean, if we are truly oppressing minorities, why are we letting them into colleges?
Because it looks good to say we are? It looks good and helps people forget about how underprivileged they are to begin with, as well as to turn a blind eye to things like racial profiling by the police or the fact that minorities often receive harshers sentences by judges.

Why do they have professional jobs? This shouldn't happen, the majority should have all of the jobs!
The majority does have more than their share of jobs in the business world.

Do you see how ridiculous you are?
No, but I see how ridiculous you are.

There are plenty of minorities in pretty good positions in regards to jobs... and I bet you they had to work hard for it.
Plenty will be when they basically have a 1:1 ratio. Whites make up 80% of the U.S population, but hold more than 80% of the high-paying business jobs. And really, if you want to get into it, minorities make up more then 20% of the population in almost EVERY city that those jobs are in... So whites have a lot more than a 1:1 ratio of population to jobs.

But they did it, they put in the effort, they did it. If you try hard enough, put enough effort in and are smart enough, a college will accept you and you can advance.
No, this is just wrong.

How can you get into college and advance if you cannot even receive a proper education to begin with? Racial minorities make up more than 20% of the poor people in this nation (even though they are only 20% of the population). As we know, poor people have the disadvantage of having crappier schools to begin with.

Students in schools in Baltimore City, for instance, can graduate with a B average, but still be far behind non-city students in math and reading. How can they compare to suburban kids when it comes to getting into colleges, then?

To try to argue what you are arguing is foolish. And if the system won't accept them into a college they can always go to a black college (if they are black).
No, to argue what you are, which is devoid of facts and filled with racist opinion and "goodwill" and some mistaken notion that everybody has an equal chance at being anything (wow, you really believe in the American Dream, don't you? It's a lie, BTW, that dream...), is foolish.

And actually, it's easier for a white kid to get into a black college these days, because they are the minority. Quotas work both ways, if you didn't know. I have quite a few friends that applied to historically black colleges and got accepted with average grades, but still received half-to-full scholarships, because they're white (and, hence, a minority there).

See above, racism has nothing to do with the "system." The "system" that you speak is trying its hardest to make everyone "equal" even though there is no such thing as true equality.
The system isn't trying nearly hard enough to make everybody equal. There needs to be tougher laws, and better programs to help poor people of all colors.

[jonhomeowner]

The people that came into the supermarket I worked at that provided food stamps and getting into their Yukon Denali's sure didn't seem to mind...
Who said it was their Yukon Denali?

And who said owning or renting a Yukon Denali makes you rich? Wow, they have a fancy car. Maybe they won it. Or someone bought it for them, or it belonged to a relative. Or maybe they have owned it since before they were poor. You do not know their circumstances, which is why I call you a racist bigot. You just assume that they are trying to rip off the welfare system, and you have no idea what is going on in their lives.

[batter10456]

Who said it was their Yukon Denali?

And who said owning or renting a Yukon Denali makes you rich? Wow, they have a fancy car. Maybe they won it. Or someone bought it for them, or it belonged to a relative. Or maybe they have owned it since before they were poor. You do not know their circumstances, which is why I call you a racist bigot. You just assume that they are trying to rip off the welfare system, and you have no idea what is going on in their lives.

So, should someone that is on welfare have a high end cell phone? Or could that be borrowed to? You are really stretching... you would think if they has won a fancy car they would sell it to get the money, wouldn't you? I mean, that would be the logical thing... so I guess that debunks one of your arguments. I do know that they are using money that I get taken from me... that is enough for me to care.

[thebigother]

Wow dude, I gotta admit I was skeptical at first, but the fact that you've seen somebody on welfare with things that you consider too expensive and have no idea how they got totally disproves the merit of the entire welfare system. Somebody call the press!

[jonhomeowner]

So, should someone that is on welfare have a high end cell phone? Or could that be borrowed to?
I have an expensive cell phone that I bought last year. And now I have a lot less money than I did then. If I was on welfare next month because I lost my job, I'd still have an expensive cell phone. Furthermore, somebody could buy me a high-end cellphone. When I was really poor for about 4 months, and barely getting-by, my mother bought be a cell phone and paid for it every month... And it was a pretty nice cell phone, too.

What's your point, again?

Oh, right, you don't really have one... Because you have no idea where people get things from.

You are really stretching... you would think if they has won a fancy car they would sell it to get the money, wouldn't you? I mean, that would be the logical thing... so I guess that debunks one of your arguments.
No, it would be illogical to sell your vehicle when you're not sure if you can get a new one that is reliable. I would never sell my car that I've owned for awhile to buy any other car, just because I know my car... I know where it's been, what it's done, that I've taken care of it, etc.

I do know that they are using money that I get taken from me... that is enough for me to care.
Boo fucking hoo. Get over it. So what, we all pay for it. Accept the fact that most of it goes to help those that truly need it, and if there are cheats out there, they are a very small minority, but one that a lot of people seem to focus on because they lose a little bit of money out of their paycheck every week.

[jonhomeowner]

Wow dude, I gotta admit I was skeptical at first, but the fact that you've seen somebody on welfare with things that you consider too expensive and have no idea how they got totally disproves the merit of the entire welfare system. Somebody call the press!
Well, if you're in that kind-of mood, let me tell you some more facts.

One time, I saw a black guy walk out of a bank with a handful of money, and he was wear a scarf around his face. I assumed he robbed the bank.

And I also saw a gay guy talking to a teenage boy.

Make sure you tell the press that black people rob banks and gay guys like to fuck little boys. It's true. I saw it, and I made my own judgements on what was going on there!

[silentscreams]

:mad:WHO CARES ABOUT THIS

[BEERnBRATWURST]

:mad:WHO CARES ABOUT THIS


Solid first post.

[jonhomeowner]

:mad:WHO CARES ABOUT THIS

It would seem that everybody posting in this topic does.

Also, anyone that cares about the world around them, or more than just themself.

[jonhomeowner]

Solid first post.
A new Colin, perhaps?

[CplOswald]

Giuliani is a (RINO) Republican in name only, just like the govenator in Ca. I have no respect for either of those liberal elitist's. If everyone who is unhappy with either of the mainstream parties would just vote Libertarian we would all be better represented.

[jonhomeowner]

Oswald is like a giant joke. It's almost too funny to be true.

I can't decide if he's a troll or not, it's that bad.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

Oswald is like a giant joke. It's almost too funny to be true.

I can't decide if he's a troll or not, it's that bad.


He sounds like one of those boneheads who can't think for himself, the perfect target for Nationalist organizations. They'll use him to disseminate rhetoric, and when he gets really brainwashed they'll pack his truck full of fertilizer and send him on a mission to blow up the White House.

Either that or he likes to share his post coital pillow talk that he has with his M16.

[jonhomeowner]

He sounds like one of those boneheads who can't think for himself, the perfect target for Nationalist organizations. They'll use him to disseminate rhetoric, and when he gets really brainwashed they'll pack his truck full of fertilizer and send him on a mission to blow up the White House.

Either that or he likes to share his post coital pillow talk that he has with his M16.
Well, he can't do any of that right now.

He's a true-blooded American... He's in Iraq right now as a contractor. And he used to be in the military and be over there, too.

See what I mean by "it's just too good to not be a troll"?

[ChrisJones]

Giuliani is a (RINO) Republican in name only, just like the govenator in Ca. I have no respect for either of those liberal elitist's. If everyone who is unhappy with either of the mainstream parties would just vote Libertarian we would all be better represented.

You wouldn't want to upset your mentor:
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/b/A/limbaugh_oxycontin.jpg