why does everyone hate warped tour

[Shawn]

????

[thebigother]

Because nobody likes standing around in the heat, paying 10 bucks for a bottle of water, and listening to mediocre corporate rock with a bunch of obnoxious 15 year olds.

[Shawn]

but some good bands play
and the people are supposed to be crazy it makes it funner

[jonhomeowner]

The good bands never play near me.

When the Damned were part of it, they didn't play the local show. When the Buzzcocks were part of it, they didn't play the local show. Last year, there was a band I wanted to see, and while I can't remember who it was now, I know that they weren't playing the local show... So I didn't go.

[Shawn]

The good bands never play near me.

When the Damned were part of it, they didn't play the local show. When the Buzzcocks were part of it, they didn't play the local show. Last year, there was a band I wanted to see, and while I can't remember who it was now, I know that they weren't playing the local show... So I didn't go.

i no wat u r sayin it sucks

[thebigother]

but some good bands play
and the people are supposed to be crazy it makes it funner
50 bucks isn't worth it to see maybe 4 good bands and spend the rest of the day wandering around through the punk rock shopping mall.

[Yarbles__Nadsat]

50 bucks isn't worth it to see maybe 4 good bands and spend the rest of the day wandering around through the punk rock shopping mall.

So then how many bands play in that concert?

[thebigother]

Uhm, lots. I'm not really sure what you're getting at.

[Yarbles__Nadsat]

Oh well, I never go to shows anyways haha

[NattyAll]

I was lucky enough to go to Warped Tour twice without having to pay. In '06 I played one show, and I wouldn't have paid to go because I personally didn't like any of the bands that were playing other than Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. I went again in August '07 and had a really good time. I would have had no problem shelling out whatever it cost to go this year just because there were more punk bands playing this year. I spent most of the day watching the Old School stage and saw a bunch of bands including Fear, Adolescents, Revolution Mother (sort of metal band with Mike Vallely on vocals and then Pat Dubar from Unity/Uniform Choice came out and did a Black Flag cover), Circle Jerks, and then Pennywise, Black President, Lower Class Brats, and Bad Religion. Let's face it, Warped Tour isn't what it was 10 years ago and that's why most punks will agree that it sucks.

[canadamike]

I went from 98 until 04. I really miss the good years. It's really just not worth it anymore.

[ChrisJones]

50 bucks isn't worth it to see maybe 4 good bands and spend the rest of the day wandering around through the punk rock shopping mall.

50 bucks? You got ripped off.

[thebigother]

Obviously, hence why I've never gone to another. The whole thing is designed to take dumb kids' money.

[ChrisJones]

Obviously, hence why I've never gone to another. The whole thing is designed to take dumb kids' money.

Maybe not specifically designed that way...well warped sure sucks if you are broke.

If it's bands making most of that money it won't bother me. They must rake in quite a load in merchandise alone.

I've just never seen tickets over 28 bucks.

[Alex666]

Eh, I dont got a problem with warped, dont even consider it a punk show. Its just a fun time get to meet some cool people, and enjoy yourself, its not a bad deal for $20. There fucking nazis for setting it up on an asfult parking lot in the middle of summer, then charging you 5 bucks for a bottle of water though. I just usually sneek a bottle or two in.

[ChrisJones]

Not defending anybody but did you know the local promoter charges for the water? Everybody bitches about warped charging for water, but it's the locals that do that to you.

The warped in Amherst water was $1.
The next night, in jersey, water was $4.

A ski resort operator in CT tried to put a warped tour on, and the contract to book the thing was the simplest contract I've ever seen.

Basically in about 3 pages it said "warped will supply stages, bands, electricity, and backstage/gate security and even promotion. You provide venue camper parking, police/fire/ambulance, an office with phone line, necessary permits, restrooms, fencing, and carnival food/water."

That was 2003. The tour package cost around $65,000, which isn't a bad deal for the bands. Kevin keeps the price down because the permits and police especially cost alot. Either way, the promoter will make a fuckin fortune if they own the venue and can attract 20,000 people. The venue also gets 10% of merchandise sales. Not too shabby.

[The Casualties rule]

Warped Tour is pretty awesome if you like bad music.

[canadamike]

Says the guy who likes the Casualties. Who still CONSTANTLY play Warped Tour.

[The Casualties rule]

You got me good!

[Tommy Guns]

7 seconds played 1998

[batter10456]

I went from 98 until 04. I really miss the good years. It's really just not worth it anymore.

Why do you have a picture of the Red Line? Off topic, I know... just curiosity got me...

To answer the question, any of the bands on Warped Tour make it to Boston eventually. Plus, I have a job and can't go for a full day...

[Sara_Yabasa]

I only went to Warped Tour once and I don't plan on going again. I did see some good bands but it wasn't worth the money or heat.

[Joe Kersten]

Because for every good band there are like four that are absolute shit! I have a friend that goes every year, and she basically goes to see one or two bands then sits through the rest, fuck that!
I really don't care for metal, but love Ozzy Osbourne and I've told people a million times the same thing about going to Ozzfest, one good show is not worth sitting through ten bad ones in my opinion. I did eventually see Ozzy last month, I just found a ride to LA and saw him and Rob Zombie at the Staples Center. Like I said I'm really not a big metal fan but it was a good show and a fun way to spend a weekend. But my point is I spent like $200 on a weekend to avoid going to Ozzfest, I'd do the same if I wanted to see a band on the Warped Tour.

[ChrisJones]

Ozzfest and Warped...which do you think has more "hot topic" written on it?

[Joe Kersten]

Ozzfest and Warped...which do you think has more "hot topic" written on it?

I think you get what I'm saying, why am I going to go through hours of uncomfort for just one show!

[DeathComesRipping]

its cool on the bus

:)

[canadamike]

Why do you have a picture of the Red Line? Off topic, I know... just curiosity got me...

To answer the question, any of the bands on Warped Tour make it to Boston eventually. Plus, I have a job and can't go for a full day...

Cause it takes a real Bostonian to know what line that is. Good job! It's really just a rad picture.

[The Casualties rule]

7 seconds played 1998

Yeah, ten years ago.

[batter10456]

Cause it takes a real Bostonian to know what line that is. Good job! It's really just a rad picture.

I would hope that I would know which line that is... I do take it every day. Also, it isn't a good thing that I am a pro on the T... I guess I have been taking it too long.

[canadamike]

I would hope that I would know which line that is... I do take it every day. Also, it isn't a good thing that I am a pro on the T... I guess I have been taking it too long.

Nothing wrong with supporting mass transit. Keeping cars off the road in a city that's not really built for congestion.

[Fukface82]

I don't think there's been a warped tour band that I liked that I couldn't go see without getting ripped off.

[DEVIN 75]

Warped is the new mall rat equivalence to Nascar and wrestling federations. All style, no substance and everything is for sale. I'll stick to my commercials on TV and not up close and in person.

[KidoftheBlackHole]

Nothing wrong with supporting mass transit. Keeping cars off the road in a city that's not really built for congestion.

I ride the T to work as well. I have no idea how to drive anywhere in that city.

[Jailhouse Records]

The good bands never play near me.

When the Damned were part of it, they didn't play the local show. When the Buzzcocks were part of it, they didn't play the local show. Last year, there was a band I wanted to see, and while I can't remember who it was now, I know that they weren't playing the local show... So I didn't go.

Don't forget though, touring is bad for the environment, they drive vehicles.

You shouldn't support such stuff.

[batter10456]

Nothing wrong with supporting mass transit. Keeping cars off the road in a city that's not really built for congestion.

I am not really supporting anything. Mass transit does not deserve supporting, they really suck. Their service is quite unreliable, but it is much cheaper than having a car, getting insurance and buying gas.

[jonhomeowner]

Don't forget though, touring is bad for the environment, they drive vehicles.
I don't give a fuck what's bad for the environment.

I was making a specific point that anarchists are usually environmentalists, and yet they put stuff out on a format that is worse for the environment (and also harder to make).

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I don't give a fuck what's bad for the environment.

I was making a specific point that anarchists are usually environmentalists, and yet they put stuff out on a format that is worse for the environment (and also harder to make).


Not too mention they smoke cigs, letting some of the biggest corporations on the planet kill them. And they wear leather jackets...made from animal flesh.

[thebigother]

Wow, that totally discredits 300 years of Anarchism.

[jonhomeowner]

It does. If you're professing to be against this or that, it's hypocritical to use it.

Like A://Political, whom LOVED to weather leather jackets and leather boots.

[thebigother]

Everybody does hyocritical things all the time.

Like you, whom on many occasions has pointed out the fallacy of making gross generalizations.
And besides, it's not like there is a set of rules you have to follow to be an Anarchist, and there is nothing wrong with having little indulgences because you like them. Some how I don't think that my record collection is responsible for global warming, or that my smoking habbit is the reason philip morris makes billions of dollars. In the grand scheme of things, they're like a piss in the ocean. But if it makes you feel any better, if push comes to shove and and the revolution depends on my giving up these things, I'll quit smoking. But I will never part with my record collection.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

Everybody does hyocritical things all the time.

Like you, whom on many occasions has pointed out the fallacy of making gross generalizations.
And besides, it's not like there is a set of rules you have to follow to be an Anarchist, and there is nothing wrong with having little indulgences because you like them. Some how I don't think that my record collection is responsible for global warming, or that my smoking habbit is the reason philip morris makes billions of dollars. In the grand scheme of things, they're like a piss in the ocean. But if it makes you feel any better, if push comes to shove and and the revolution depends on my giving up these things, I'll quit smoking. But I will never part with my record collection.



I just think it's funny that anarchist punks around here bum change specifically so they can buy cigs from multi-million dollar corporations that knowing sell a product that will kill you. So I guess anarchists don't have to practice anarchy until the revolution is upon them....?

It's roughly the same argument some of the "trad" skins use in defense of why they own white power music. "I'm not white power, I just like how it sounds".....nevermind the meaning/message behind it.

But I guess in the grand scheme of things, if there was a race war, they could be depended upon to be on the right side. Even though they like to listen to a little "Hail The New Dawn" from time to time....;)

[jonhomeowner]

Everybody does hyocritical things all the time.

Like you, whom on many occasions has pointed out the fallacy of making gross generalizations.
And besides, it's not like there is a set of rules you have to follow to be an Anarchist, and there is nothing wrong with having little indulgences because you like them.
But if you believe in something, why not believe in it 100%?

Why not give it your all?

And if you are hypocritical, and people can see it, you cast a shadow of doubt on your ideas/beliefs - others won't take you serious.

[Jailhouse Records]

But if you believe in something, why not believe in it 100%?

Why not give it your all?

And if you are hypocritical, and people can see it, you cast a shadow of doubt on your ideas/beliefs - others won't take you serious.

I have come to the conclusion that you are just smarter than everyone, and only what you say or believe even counts.

We just can't even compare to your coolness, especially with the sunglasses and bottle of Vodka, and the way your profile talks about how you love sluts and getting head etc.

You, sir, are perfect.

I wish I was like you when I was 9.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

the way your profile talks about how you love sluts and getting head etc.

You, sir, are perfect.

I wish I was like you when I was 9.


I wish I was getting head when I was 9 too. Actually, at 9, I would probably have been more excited about Legos..... it's right now that i'm wishing I was getting head.

[bunniegraves]

I wish I was getting head when I was 9 too. Actually, at 9, I would probably have been more excited about Legos..... it's right now that i'm wishing I was getting head.


a little off topic, but your username is making me hungry

[BEERnBRATWURST]

a little off topic, but your username is making me hungry


It works. The transition from getting head to bratwurst only makes sense, since both things are great any time of the day, and they both share a sausage-like appearance.

[bunniegraves]

It works. The transition from getting head to bratwurst only makes sense, since both things are great any time of the day, and they both share a sausage-like appearance.

i agree. sausage for everyone!

[thebigother]

But if you believe in something, why not believe in it 100%?

Why not give it your all?
Because there are times when that would create such a silly and extreme set of standards. I mean, let's use me for an example: That would mean that I live in a commune in which all power is wind and solar generated by off grid generators, all of my food would have to be cultivated by me, and all of my clothing made from organic materials that I grew, harvested, and manufactured. Not exactly a practical option, and there are more pressing issues.

And if you are hypocritical, and people can see it, you cast a shadow of doubt on your ideas/beliefs - others won't take you serious.
When it comes to smoking, everybody makes mistakes. Everybody knows it's stupid and everybody knows it's a death industry. But in the same way doctor smoking doesn't automatically make them a bad doctor, it doesn't automatically make one a bad Anarchist either. It's bigger than that. When it comes to vinyl records, I can safely say that you're the only person I've come across ever who cares. You also seem to be missing the point of Anarchism, which is to not have rules telling one how to live. After the revolution if people wanted to smoke they could smoke, they could own records over CD's, and if they wanted to pay somebody to kill them, they could do that too. Except it would be more like bartering.

[!straightfuckingedge]

????

Because once Kevin Lyman sighned Aiden, and AFI to the tour people just thought it was a tour for posers!

[ChrisJones]

Pepsi in affiliation with Skittles presents

"The Revolution"

Skittles, taste the rainbow!

[jonhomeowner]

When it comes to smoking, everybody makes mistakes. Everybody knows it's stupid and everybody knows it's a death industry. But in the same way doctor smoking doesn't automatically make them a bad doctor, it doesn't automatically make one a bad Anarchist either. It's bigger than that. When it comes to vinyl records, I can safely say that you're the only person I've come across ever who cares. You also seem to be missing the point of Anarchism, which is to not have rules telling one how to live. After the revolution if people wanted to smoke they could smoke, they could own records over CD's, and if they wanted to pay somebody to kill them, they could do that too. Except it would be more like bartering.
Well, you just made a poor case for anarchism, then.

If anarchy = not having rules telling one how to live, then anarchy = chaos.

Everybody has to have rules, whether they're laws or simply personal rules.

[Jailhouse Records]

You have basically claimed "anarchist", claimed "environmentalist" and everything in between, you try to pretend as if you are an expert in everything.

I really hate the internet for the simple fact that I realistically cannot just beat the living hell out of you for all of your stupid, ridiculous comments.

People like you tend to be insecure about themselves, and feel the need to be superior to everyone.

Grow up, take off your stupid ass "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" attire, and try to be a real person.

Try having an intelligent debate, or better yet! A friendly conversation. Maybe you could eventually even try that outside the realms of cyberspace.

I really, truly cannot express the amount of contempt I hold for you.

I really try not to be mean to anyone at all, but when your first comment ever to me, was that I am destroying the environment by producing vinyl vs cd's, and have basically had nothing intelligent, or anything that even made sense (in the very loosest deffinition) I have come to the conclusion that you are one of those internet dorks, who spend all their time trying to attract attention on the net, under the veil of internet anonymity.

Seriously you need to grow up.

You may now respond with your obligatory "Expert" opinion on this post, and why I am "not punk" or whatever your little PC brain will come back with.

[thebigother]

Well, you just made a poor case for anarchism, then.

If anarchy = not having rules telling one how to live, then anarchy = chaos.

Everybody has to have rules, whether they're laws or simply personal rules.
I'm not trying to make a case for Anarchism. I'm merely pointing out that there is no criteria, X, Y, and Z one has to follow to be an Anarchist (aside from being opposed to the state and in favor of individual autonomy.) And I didn't say anything about not having personal rules to live by. Everybody has their own set of rules for living that they follow, it's unavoidable. You know what I mean by "not having a set of rules telling one how to live." No need to start splitting hairs.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I really hate the internet for the simple fact that I realistically cannot just beat the living hell out of you for all of your stupid, ridiculous comments.

People like you tend to be insecure about themselves, and feel the need to be superior to everyone.

Grow up, take off your stupid ass "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" attire, and try to be a real person.

Try having an intelligent debate, or better yet! A friendly conversation. Maybe you could eventually even try that outside the realms of cyberspace.

I really, truly cannot express the amount of contempt I hold for you.


Seriously you need to grow up.

You may now respond with your obligatory "Expert" opinion on this post, and why I am "not punk" or whatever your little PC brain will come back with.

I saw something in there about trying to have an intelligent debate? It's obvious your pissed at jon, but you've been slagging (http://punkrockers.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1663&page=4) him since your original post. Why not just stick to the issues that you don't agree on instead of threatening violence?

I've said this before, I think folks whose screen name is associated with their business, should refrain from arguments. Not good for business in my opinion. You should have a personal screen name so your violent threats are associated with you, instead of your business.

Just trying to help a brother out.... yo.

[thebigother]

You have basically claimed "anarchist", claimed "environmentalist" and everything in between, you try to pretend as if you are an expert in everything.

I really hate the internet for the simple fact that I realistically cannot just beat the living hell out of you for all of your stupid, ridiculous comments.

People like you tend to be insecure about themselves, and feel the need to be superior to everyone.

Grow up, take off your stupid ass "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" attire, and try to be a real person.

Try having an intelligent debate, or better yet! A friendly conversation. Maybe you could eventually even try that outside the realms of cyberspace.

I really, truly cannot express the amount of contempt I hold for you.

I really try not to be mean to anyone at all, but when your first comment ever to me, was that I am destroying the environment by producing vinyl vs cd's, and have basically had nothing intelligent, or anything that even made sense (in the very loosest deffinition) I have come to the conclusion that you are one of those internet dorks, who spend all their time trying to attract attention on the net, under the veil of internet anonymity.

Seriously you need to grow up.

You may now respond with your obligatory "Expert" opinion on this post, and why I am "not punk" or whatever your little PC brain will come back with.
Oh, shut up. We're having a perfectly fine conversation. You're the only person who's getting upset, and you're also contributing absolutely nothing to it.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

Oh, shut up. We're having a perfectly fine conversation. You're the only person who's getting upset, and you're also contributing absolutely nothing to it.

Seriously. Now I have no desire whatsoever to check out Jailhouse Records. I'm sure his business associates would be proud that he dragged their business logo into his personal vendetta.

[Jailhouse Records]

I saw something in there about trying to have an intelligent debate? It's obvious your pissed at jon, but you've been slagging (http://punkrockers.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=1663&page=4) him since your original post. Why not just stick to the issues that you don't agree on instead of threatening violence?

I've said this before, I think folks whose screen name is associated with their business, should refrain from arguments. Not good for business in my opinion. You should have a personal screen name so your violent threats are associated with you, instead of your business.

Just trying to help a brother out.... yo.

I appreciate your post,

However I think we can agree that if you look up the first post, I was being slagged from the beggining, for putting out vinyl.

You are right about the business screen name.

It's very hard not to get angry at someone who seems to think everyone is stupid except for them.

But yeah, I typically get along with any and everyone. I would never instigate an argument.

Again though you are correct, except for the me slagging HIM from the beginning however :)

I will simply not talk or respond to this particular person anymore.

Again you are correct, and I did act in a way that not only escalated the situation, but in a way that is not in my nature.

Anyway.. .
Hope everyone had a great new years.

And a truce! with jonhomeowner.

[thebigother]

I wasn't planning on checking them out in the first place, but should I come across them in the future it will definitly change the way I approach them.

[bunniegraves]

high amount of drama for such a low amount of estrogen in this thread. unless you 'guys' are hiding something.

[Jailhouse Records]

Ok a second apology to the other people I may have offended.

Whether or not you check out the label or whatever is fine, that was not in my intentions on joining on here.

I am really not used to chat rooms etc, and all the things that go with it.

Again, sorry to anyone I offended.

And I am not just saying that to protect a label image or whatever, I did act immaturely.

The filter from brain to typing apparantley was turned off in my case.:)

P.S, just to clarify, I have no interest in trying to further a company or label. We are fine without trying to promote on a forum, that was deffinitely the last thing I wanted to do.

Anyway, that's my last post, and again I am not used to forums/chatrooms etc.
My apologies to those who were offended.

[bunniegraves]

Ok a second apology to the other people I may have offended.

Whether or not you check out the label or whatever is fine, that was not in my intentions on joining on here.

I am really not used to chat rooms etc, and all the things that go with it.

Again, sorry to anyone I offended.

And I am not just saying that to protect a label image or whatever, I did act immaturely.

The filter from brain to typing apparantley was turned off in my case.:)

P.S, just to clarify, I have no interest in trying to further a company or label. We are fine without trying to promote on a forum, that was deffinitely the last thing I wanted to do.

Anyway, that's my last post, and again I am not used to forums/chatrooms etc.
My apologies to those who were offended.


dude,
i doubt anyone here is emotionally scarred from anything you posted (and if they are, fuck 'em)

just stop apologizing.

[-tool-]

dude,
i doubt anyone here is emotionally scarred from anything you posted (and if they are, fuck 'em)

just stop apologizing.

bunnie,could you be any more cooler?:D i love it!

[bunniegraves]

bunnie,could you be any more cooler?:D i love it!

im just sayin' :)

[jonhomeowner]

You have basically claimed "anarchist", claimed "environmentalist" and everything in between, you try to pretend as if you are an expert in everything.
I have never claimed to be an anarchist on here.

Where are you getting this from?

I really hate the internet for the simple fact that I realistically cannot just beat the living hell out of you for all of your stupid, ridiculous comments.
So, you're an internet tough guy?

SHUT THE FUCK UP, FAGGOT. YOU COULDN'T HURT ME AT ALL. I'D BREAK YOUR FUCKING FACE AND THEN FUCK YOUR MOUTH AND YOUR ASS... AND YOU'D LOVE EVERY MINUTE OF IT.

People like you tend to be insecure about themselves, and feel the need to be superior to everyone.
Yeah, man. Let me tell you... You're an expert in psychoanalysis. Why don't you try it as a profession?

Grow up, take off your stupid ass "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" attire, and try to be a real person.
What are you even talking about?

I hate that book, and I am only mildly fond of the movie. Why would I dress like I was part of either? And what the fuck do I wear that is anything like any thing the book or movie?

Try having an intelligent debate, or better yet!
Man, that's a great idea. I've never done that befo... Wait, wait... No... I have.

This is funny... It's like you think you know me, but you don't at all.

I was having an intelligent debate, btw... I have been posting facts and giving opinions. I have yet to blatantly insult anyone (until this post, which is only because you wanted to go there).

A friendly conversation.
What's that?

Maybe you could eventually even try that outside the realms of cyberspace.
Man, I did that the other night... Next thing I know, this girl is making out with me... And no more conversation for me. It sucked. I really wanted to talk some more and practice my conversation skills, because I knew you were going to tell me to.

I really, truly cannot express the amount of contempt I hold for you.
The internet is REALLY serious business, isn't it?

I really try not to be mean to anyone at all, but when your first comment ever to me, was that I am destroying the environment by producing vinyl vs cd's, and have basically had nothing intelligent, or anything that even made sense (in the very loosest deffinition) I have come to the conclusion that you are one of those internet dorks, who spend all their time trying to attract attention on the net, under the veil of internet anonymity.
Well, compared to CDs, vinyl is more damaging to the environment. And being that I stated that, and did so in an intelligent way, I don't see how I have said "had nothing intelligent, or anything that even made sense [to say]".

I mean, come on... I stated a fact. What's not intelligent or "sensible" about that?

Seriously you need to grow up.
You keep saying that, but I think maybe you are getting the roles reversed.

You may now respond with your obligatory "Expert" opinion on this post, and why I am "not punk" or whatever your little PC brain will come back with.
You're not punk, you're emo. The really long, whiney post I'm responding to proves this.

[-tool-]

im just sayin' :)

i know,and i can't get enough of it!:D

[jonhomeowner]

I appreciate your post,

However I think we can agree that if you look up the first post, I was being slagged from the beggining, for putting out vinyl.
WAAAAH, HE STARTED IT!

What are you, three?

Anyway, I wasn't slagging you, I was making a general statement...

Vinyl is detrimental to the environment.

I can't stand seeing anarcho bands put out stuff on vinyl... It's wasteful. CDs hold more information in less space, and are equally or MORE environmentally-friendly when it comes to the manufacturing of the actual product.

[bunniegraves]

but vinyl is retro, and retro is like, automatic coolness.

[ChrisJones]

You're not punk, you're emo. The really long, whiney post I'm responding to proves this.

Yes! I win!

Jailhouse and Jon you must both remember that flaws are what make people human. Every hero in history has a flaw.

Anyways, I like pancakes.

[jonhomeowner]

Yes! I win!

Jailhouse and Jon you must both remember that flaws are what make people human. Every hero in history has a flaw.

Anyways, I like pancakes.
Who said that was negative?

[The Transmission]

Do we take it the picture you took down after your love fest with jailhouse really was you jon!

[thebigother]

I keep forgetting that at least half (the non PF.com half) of the user here don't know what he looks like.

[jonhomeowner]

Do we take it the picture you took down after your love fest with jailhouse really was you jon!
I didn't take it down after my "love fest". I changed it to that one before then. Maybe it just took awhile to update for you guys.

I found this one the other day, and I figured it'd amuse some of the PF kids.

[Nips]

im, for one, am highly amused.

[ClassyAlice]

I have a quick question...
what makes leather so ecologically wrong?
leather is one of the most durable substances known to man... I've owned the same pair of boots for about 7 years, gone through rain, show, road salt, mud, forests, and even worked construction in them, and they're still completely wearable... leather jackets and leather boots are practical and warm, and they last for much longer than coats or shoes made out of other substances... what's more ecologically sound than a pair of shoes that you can wear for years without having to replace them?
yes, leather is made from cow hide, and people may have moral issues with wearing the flesh of an animal, but just because you believe something to be morally wrong does not mean that it will destroy the earth... even in an all-natural, all organic world, you would still find people eating meat, and using the remaining parts of the animal to protect them from the elements, make weapons, or even for decoration. the problem with raising animals like cattle for meat, such as deforestation and methane gas, is the way we have chosen to go about it, not actually raising the animals in and of itself.
the tanning process might involve chemicals that are dangerous, but surely if properly disposed of, they wouldn't present a problem. if necessary, substitutions could be made...
maybe I'm being dense, and sorry for going on a long rant, but I still fail to see what the problem with leather is.

[Captain_Obvious]

^Wouldn't this have been better as its own topic?!?

[joaquin]

I have a quick question...
what makes leather so ecologically wrong?
leather is one of the most durable substances known to man... I've owned the same pair of boots for about 7 years, gone through rain, show, road salt, mud, forests, and even worked construction in them, and they're still completely wearable... leather jackets and leather boots are practical and warm, and they last for much longer than coats or shoes made out of other substances... what's more ecologically sound than a pair of shoes that you can wear for years without having to replace them?
yes, leather is made from cow hide, and people may have moral issues with wearing the flesh of an animal, but just because you believe something to be morally wrong does not mean that it will destroy the earth... even in an all-natural, all organic world, you would still find people eating meat, and using the remaining parts of the animal to protect them from the elements, make weapons, or even for decoration. the problem with raising animals like cattle for meat, such as deforestation and methane gas, is the way we have chosen to go about it, not actually raising the animals in and of itself.
the tanning process might involve chemicals that are dangerous, but surely if properly disposed of, they wouldn't present a problem. if necessary, substitutions could be made...
maybe I'm being dense, and sorry for going on a long rant, but I still fail to see what the problem with leather is.

i agree with you. humans have been using animal hide / meat /bones for as long back as history goes and it wasn't untill modern times that we managed to fuck the earth up by doing it.

[jonhomeowner]

What Joaquin said... In modern times we've fucked the Earth up while doing it.

[Jailhouse Records]

I keep forgetting that at least half (the non PF.com half) of the user here don't know what he looks like.

Out of curiousity what is PF.com?

Just wondering

[jonhomeowner]

Out of curiousity what is PF.com?
Nothing you need to know about, fascist!

[KidoftheBlackHole]

Out of curiousity what is PF.com?

Just wondering

You are forbidden to wonder.

[Shawn]

I was lucky enough to go to Warped Tour twice without having to pay. In '06 I played one show, and I wouldn't have paid to go because I personally didn't like any of the bands that were playing other than Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. I went again in August '07 and had a really good time. I would have had no problem shelling out whatever it cost to go this year just because there were more punk bands playing this year. I spent most of the day watching the Old School stage and saw a bunch of bands including , Fear Adolescents, Revolution Mother (sort of metal band with Mike Vallely on vocals and then Pat Dubar from Unity/Uniform Choice came out and did a Black Flag cover), Circle Jerks, and then Pennywise, Black President, Lower Class Brats, and Bad Religion. Let's face it, Warped Tour isn't what it was 10 years ago and that's why most punks will agree that it sucks.

i would have loved to see Fear, Adolescents, im not big on revolution mother but i like mike v's voise circle jerks pennywise lcb and br r so bad ass that would have been cool

[kinkykendal]

I went one year, realized how much the whole scene sucked, and haven't been back. There are way cheaper and way better shows to spend your money on.

[Captain_Obvious]

ditto... I went in 2004 in fullerton.. boy did that suck!

$5 for a bottle of water and no drinking fountains in sight...

bands like Alkaline Trio and Coheed and Cambria blairing their version of what they call music. Bad Religion, NOFX and Guttermouth played, the only good thing out of the whole day.

it was just one big sell-fest. advertise, Advertise, ADVERTISE!!!

[DeathComesRipping]

ditto... I went in 2004 in fullerton.. boy did that suck!

$5 for a bottle of water and no drinking fountains in sight...

bands like Alkaline Trio and Coheed and Cambria blairing their version of what they call music. Bad Religion, NOFX and Guttermouth played, the only good thing out of the whole day.

it was just one big sell-fest. advertise, Advertise, ADVERTISE!!!


You are forgetting Anti-Flag, The Bouncing Souls and The God Awfuls, they all rocked fullerton.

[russbutter]

I have a quick question...
what makes leather so ecologically wrong?
the short answer is that tanning leather is almost always done with highly toxic stuff. Stuff that doesnt go away nicely. This touches on the whole vegan shoe problem though. Which is worse; to buy leather shoes thereby indirectly supporting the meat industry, or to buy synthetic shoes which will still be here when the sun dies? There are a few notable exceptions, such as shoes made from hippie-ass hemp which are ugly, or expensive vegetan shoes from england which are fake leather from vegetative sources.
But seriously, how many of those spare changers are really anarchists? How many of them have read any of Marx, Engels, Bakunin or even Chomsky? I prefer to call them Bukowskis.
More on topic:
people hate warped because its the commodification of punk subculture. Punk is what you and people in your community make of it. hence the regionalism. What they sell you as punk is a halloween costume. Avril Lavigne will be appearing at hot topic today with Billy Joe Armstrong to promote their new duet album.
I dont care how many old time punk bands get on the stage, its just whore-ing themselves. I can go see a real live actual hardcore band at a house show almost every weekend. If this does not exist where you live, start a band. Have a show at your house.

[Captain_Obvious]

You are forgetting Anti-Flag, The Bouncing Souls and The God Awfuls, they all rocked fullerton.

I didn't forget anyone, I stick by what I said...

[thebigother]

I would fully support a Bukowski revolution.

[joaquin]

Punk is what you and people in your community make of it. hence the regionalism. What they sell you as punk is a halloween costume. Avril Lavigne will be appearing at hot topic today with Billy Joe Armstrong to promote their new duet album.
I dont care how many old time punk bands get on the stage, its just whore-ing themselves. I can go see a real live actual hardcore band at a house show almost every weekend. If this does not exist where you live, start a band. Have a show at your house.

listen up kids! this man speaks the truth.

[russbutter]

I would fully support a Bukowski revolution.
you know what I mean right? Folks that are just doing the whole "on the road" thing. Trainhopping and being homeless are nothing revolutionary. neither is being drunk all the time.

Hey nothing wrong with those pursuits either, I did that for like 10 years back in the late 80's to late 90's. Then my organs started failing and I had to get real.

[jonhomeowner]

My gods... Another "I'm old and know everything" person.

[Captain_Obvious]

My gods... Another "I'm old and know everything" person.

Yay! We just LOVE those people! :mad:

[joaquin]

i bet that dude is more punk rock than you two morons even if he was wearing sandals and black socks yelling at kids to get off his lawn.

[jonhomeowner]

i bet that dude is more punk rock than you two morons even if he was wearing sandals and black socks yelling at kids to get off his lawn.
I'm more punk rock than you. Trust me.

It's because I really don't give a fuck if I am or not... Or about what you think of me.

[joaquin]

I'm more punk rock than you. Trust me

i trust very few in this world, and youre definately not one of them. and as far as your claim to fame here goes, all i can say is i live it, i dont just type about it. this shit is my life and has been for over a decade. i live under the radar, i make my own way through life, and i make music, throw shows, run a small label, and do a hell of a lot for my underground.

as far as i can tell all you do is berate people online to inflate your ego. up the e-punx:rolleyes:jonnyboy

[thebigother]

Arguing over who's "realer" on the internet is so stupid. It always pan's out the exact same way:

person 1:I am so awesome because I have qualities A, B, and C and have done things D, E, and F.

person 2:I don't believe you because I have qualities T, U, and V and have done things X, Y, and Z. You just sit on the internet all day.

person 1:No I don't. I do amazing and fulfilling things, you only do things that suck.

person 2: Et cetera.

[joaquin]

i'm not argueing, i'm just saying i actually do shit for the underground. you can call that the measure for whatever you want. i don't claim to be anything but human.

[joaquin]

person 2:I don't believe you because I have qualities T, U, and V and have done things X, Y, and Z. You just sit on the internet all day.


i could name drop all day on the bands in your likes section of your profile with all the bands i know on a personal level and have helped out or worked with in some capacity from north america in the past 10 years, but i'm wearin my black socks and sandals and wouldn't want to hurt my toes.

being real is taking action for your beliefs and desires, and that is exactly what i do. what do you do?

[jonhomeowner]

i trust very few in this world, and youre definately not one of them. and as far as your claim to fame here goes, all i can say is i live it, i dont just type about it. this shit is my life and has been for over a decade. i live under the radar, i make my own way through life, and i make music, throw shows, run a small label, and do a hell of a lot for my underground.
You missed the point. I'm not punk because I "live the punk lifestyle oi oi!" or because I'm part of the "punk scene". I am punk because I just don't give a fuck who I offend or what you think about me.

[jonhomeowner]

i could name drop all day on the bands in your likes section of your profile with all the bands i know on a personal level and have helped out or worked with in some capacity from north america in the past 10 years
Nobody fucking cares, old man!

being real is taking action for your beliefs and desires, and that is exactly what i do. what do you do?
Then I'm definitely real. I ALWAYS take action on my desires. I describe my philosophical beliefs as "hedonist".

[joaquin]

Nobody fucking cares, old man!.

you're nobody. the people that matter to me care.

[jonhomeowner]

you're nobody. the people that matter to me care.
No... You're a nobody!

YOU STARTED IT!

MOMMY, JOAQUIN IS BEING MEAN!

[thebigother]

i could name drop all day on the bands in your likes section of your profile with all the bands i know on a personal level and have helped out or worked with in some capacity from north america in the past 10 years, but i'm wearin my black socks and sandals and wouldn't want to hurt my toes.

being real is taking action for your beliefs and desires, and that is exactly what i do. what do you do?
See! This is exactly what I was talking about! You may as well have just recreated my post verbatim. And you completly missed the point the of it. I'm not challenging anybody "realness." I'm pointing out how dumb it is to do so in an enviroment with nothing can be verified or confirmed. But if you must know, I've been working with promoters and bands since I was 15, playing in bands since I was 16, written for zines, ran websites for the local scene, and done a whole bunch of other things that make people go "Holy shit, you have punk cred!" I've been involved with various activist groups in various capacities (that's as much information as you'll ever get on that aspect of my life, since I don't want to incriminate my self or anybody else). Also, encase you haven't noticed me talking about it for the past few months, moved across the country to start a new life from scratch because I was tired and unhappy with the way mine was playing out back home. If that's not acting on your beliefs and desires, I don't know what is.

Your post also reminded me of that part in Zoolander when Mugatu said "I INVENTED THE PIANO KEY NECK TIE! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE DEREK ZOOLANDER?"

[joaquin]

riiiight dude. because i'm totally tryin to impress you. i do these things because i think they should be done and i believe in leading by example, hence my posts on being civil to one another, etc.

i wrote what i wrote in my last post in this thread sarcastically. apparently you can't understand sarcasm as well as you can throw it around. if i was really trying to make a competion out of it i would have listed off at least the major things i've done. but thats not what this shits about. its not about one person. its about an underground community creating our own world never to be betrayed by the allmighty dollar and greed. its about puttin value on whats really important, the intangibles in life.

[joaquin]

You missed the point. I'm not punk because I "live the punk lifestyle oi oi!" or because I'm part of the "punk scene". I am punk because I just don't give a fuck who I offend or what you think about me.
that doesn't make you punk,that just makes you a self righteous dick. you're a fashion punk minus the funny clothes if thats all its about to you.

[thebigother]

riiiight dude. because i'm totally tryin to impress you.
Good, you can stop doing it then, because I'm not impressed. Not in the slightest. To but it bluntly: I really don't give a shit.
i do these things because i think they should be done and i believe in leading by example, hence my posts on being civil to one another, etc.
Well aren't you just so high and mighty. Do you have any more wisdom to descend upon us from the glorious heights of your Ivory Tower?

i wrote what i wrote in my last post in this thread sarcastically. apparently you can't understand sarcasm as well as you can throw it around.
I wasn't be sarcastic. It was a deadly serious annalysis I've formulated of such conversations. And to think you called me cynical!
if i was really trying to make a competion out of it i would have listed off at least the major things i've done.
Does everybody see this? He's still doing it!
but thats not what this shits about.
...and then immediately denies doing it! And actually, this is exactly what this is about. It's just a dialectic between two people, about those two people.
its not about one person. its about an underground community creating our own world never to be betrayed by the allmighty dollar and greed. its about puttin value on whats really important, the intangibles in life.
Get a life dude. You act like it's impossible to say the word "punk" without having some giant socio-political subtext. It's almost obsessive.

[thebigother]

that doesn't make you punk,that just makes you a self righteous dick. you're a fashion punk minus the funny clothes if thats all its about to you.
Who died and made you the punk rock policy maker? You're so self righteous it makes me sick. You represent every thing I hate about punk rock, people who use "not selling out, man" and "doing this shit for real!" as legitimacy for creating a thinly veiled set of rules on how to be a punk.

[joaquin]

Good, you can stop doing it then, because I'm not impressed. Not in the slightest. To but it bluntly: I really don't give a shit.

Well aren't you just so high and mighty. Do you have any more wisdom to descend upon us from the glorious heights of your Ivory Tower?


I wasn't be sarcastic. It was a deadly serious annalysis I've formulated of such conversations. And to think you called me cynical!

Does everybody see this? He's still doing it!

...and then immediately denies doing it! And actually, this is exactly what this is about. It's just a dialectic between two people, about those two people.

Get a life dude. You act like it's impossible to say the word "punk" without having some giant socio-political subtext. It's almost obsessive.

punk DOES have a giant socio-political subtext to it. you and your little elitist forum crew need to understand that. and yes, i am obsessive about my values and morals. i've had the time to contemplate them and i feel i'm right and want others to see what i see in the world around us. whether or not they see it from my point of view isn't what i'm after, just opening eyes to whats there.

[thebigother]

Sorry pal, punk rock may be a lot of things, but it is most definitly not a religion. If things panned out a little differently, you'd be a born again christian.

[joaquin]

Who died and made you the punk rock policy maker? You're so self righteous it makes me sick. You represent every thing I hate about punk rock, people who use "not selling out, man" and "doing this shit for real!" as legitimacy for creating a thinly veiled set of rules on how to be a punk.

i accept many things. ignorance and uncalled for rudeness just happen to not be two of them.

and whats wrong with "doing this shit for real"? i dont treat this lifestyle or the message it brings with it as a commodity, and thats a bad thing? i don't get you.

like i said before, the only thing i claim to be is human, as opposed to your "being a monster masquerading as a human", i believe is how you put it, right? so am i to take that as you saying that its better to be a brutish asshole than a decent person, or is it just society's fault and youre just another victim of circumstance, creating the monster that types here today?
in a perfect world you wouldn't have to wear a forced smile throughout the day then come to the electronic stomping grounds to blow off your steam and release your agression, but that world will never come so just accept the fact that life sucks and suck it up, right?

how about change what you hate? thats all i try to do. it doesn't mean i'm dropping shitbombs of propaganda or rhetoric from an ivory tower, it means i care.

[thebigother]

and whats wrong with "doing this shit for real"? i dont treat this lifestyle or the message it brings with it as a commodity, and thats a bad thing? i don't get you.
I suggets you check out this web site:http://www.sde.ct.gov/sde/cwp/view.asp?a=2620&q=320686&sdePNavCtr=|45467|#45494
Then if you'll read my post again, you'll see that wasn't my objection.

like i said before, the only thing i claim to be is human, as opposed to your "being a monster masquerading as a human", i believe is how you put it, right? so am i to take that as you saying that its better to be a brutish asshole than a decent person, or is it just society's fault and youre just another victim of circumstance, creating the monster that types here today?
I've said no such thing. Now you're just creating straw man arguments and putting words in my mouth. I'm not interested in telling people how to live or what their personal philosophy should be. If you'd read my quote in context you'd know I was talking only about myself, and never once said or implied that everybody should do the same.

in a perfect world you wouldn't have to wear a forced smile throughout the day then come to the electronic stomping grounds to blow off your steam and release your agression, but that world will never come so just accept the fact that life sucks and suck it up, right?
I don't just come here to blow off steam. I mostly come here to talk about things I like with people I identify with, but sometimes, people say stupid things and I take advantage of the opportunity not to hold myself back or water down what I want to say, because it feels good to that sometimes. If you think for me it's a constant thing, maybe that says something about the things you're saying.

how about change what you hate?
Yeah, I'll just wave my magic wand and create Zach Greene's Utopia. Why didn't
I think of that before? thats all i try to do. it doesn't mean i'm dropping shitbombs of propaganda or rhetoric from an ivory tower, it means i care.
I didn't say anything about propaganda. I was talking about your self-righteousness. Shitbomb is still a good word to describe it though.

[joaquin]

Sorry pal, punk rock may be a lot of things, but it is most definitly not a religion. If things panned out a little differently, you'd be a born again christian.

why do you feel the need to create arguements? i never said it was a religion, and i dont expect anyone to see things exactly the way i do, all i expect is a little common courtesy and for people to be open to different ways of thinking than what they may currently feel is right.

if it wasn't for others who came before me with the same intent, i don't think i'd be who i am today. i just want us to be able to learn from one another. i dont expect anyone to "put me on a pedestal" or some bullshit, no one knows better than themself what to take from what others speak and how to base their views. i'm just throwing my two cents in, if you think its worthless; fine. maybe someone else will think its worthwhile. ok, chief?

[thebigother]

why do you feel the need to create arguements?
Because I vehemently disagree with you. Is that a good enough reason?
i never said it was a religion, and i dont expect anyone to see things exactly the way i do, all i expect is a little common courtesy and for people to be open to different ways of thinking than what they may currently feel is right.
Well you're proselytizing it like one. Your posts look eerily similar to the same way missionaries share the wisdom with the lost souls.

if it wasn't for others who came before me with the same intent, i don't think i'd be who i am today. i just want us to be able to learn from one another.
Then think of this a lesson in what my objections are to everything you've said, and then use that to better understand and critique them. It's a part of learning.
i dont expect anyone to "put me on a pedestal" or some bullshit, no one knows better than themself what to take from what others speak and how to base their views. i'm just throwing my two cents in, if you think its worthless; fine. maybe someone else will think its worthwhile. ok, chief?
I don't care what anybody else thinks about what you have to say. I'm only talking about what I think of it. And if you can't handle criticism of your school of thought, then maybe you should just shut up about it. I'm a person with an opinion and I have just as much right to voice it as anybody else. How's that sound, Pop's?

[joaquin]

criticism is fine, but make it constructive criticism. don't just talk shit. i'm obviously interested in what other people have to say or i wouldn't be here.

[joaquin]

t. I'm a person with an opinion and I have just as much right to voice it as anybody else. How's that sound, Pop's?

that sounds fine, killer. i never said people shouldn't have opinions or the right to one. it still doesn't mean you have to be an asshole while conveying said opinion.

[thebigother]

And you don't have to be all holier than thou either. When you stop doing that, I'll stop being crass. I'll probaby still keep calling your ideas preposterous though.

[joaquin]

And you don't have to be all holier than thou either.

its not my intent to come off as such. i'm not trying to make people mad, i'm tryin to share what i know and learn from others.

[jonhomeowner]

that doesn't make you punk,that just makes you a self righteous dick. you're a fashion punk minus the funny clothes if thats all its about to you.
Maybe that's what punk is all about... Being a self-righteous dick. I think the fact that you are actually trying to define what punk is makes you completely un-punk and ruins the idea of punk.

[Captain_Obvious]

HAHA!

isn't it funny when someone comes along and challenges someones "Punkness"

[joaquin]

Maybe that's what punk is all about... Being a self-righteous dick. I think the fact that you are actually trying to define what punk is makes you completely un-punk and ruins the idea of punk.

i'm not trying to define "punk"as a whole. i'm stating what it is to me, and what it could be-something greater than an excuse to be an asshole.

and you're right, for once. if "punk is all about... Being a self-righteous dick", i am completely un-punk. allthough your boy zach thinks otherwise-he told me i was sickeningly self-righteous:rolleyes:

[joaquin]

HAHA!

isn't it funny when someone comes along and challenges someones "Punkness"

yeah dooood LOLZ. i,like, totally got my punk meter out and his,like, punkness like totally came in on, like, the bottom of the scale.OMGZ!!!!!!!!!11

[jonhomeowner]

and you're right, for once. if "punk is all about... Being a self-righteous dick", i am completely un-punk. allthough your boy zach thinks otherwise-he told me i was sickeningly self-righteous:rolleyes:
No, you are a self-righteous dick. I said you were un-punk for trying so deseperately to define punk and put it in this little box of yours.

[joaquin]

No, you are a self-righteous dick. I said you were un-punk for trying so deseperately to define punk and put it in this little box of yours.

apparently i came off as self righteous-ok, i apoligize if i did. i don't think i'm any better than anybody else for the record. a dick? how so? because i express that people shouldn't be so caustic to one another for no good reason? ok, dude-whatever.

punk can be and is lots of things, i'm not trying to define it and dress it up in a nice little package. i dont impose a set of rules anybody needs to follow for them to be considered "punk".all i keep saying is simply being an asshole about shit is stupid. you can take that as you will.

now just leave it alone, allready. i'm sure you can find something beter to bitch and whine about. isn't there some "n00b" out there somewhere waiting for your fangs to sink in?

[ChrisJones]

Ahh the "hazing ritual" One must pass this test before going on the punkforums greatness!!! Starring as usual, the most lovely Bigother and his spandex wearing emo haircut JonHomoPhobe! We are going with full coverage here on punkforums.com! Every debate! Every multi-quote! And yes folks, every smug name you can think of! So grab your dictionaries, history books, english grammar manuals and of course political doctrine read straight from genuine punk lyrics, and let's begin!!!....

So cards are dealt on the table and once again a person is on the defense for speaking their mind. As his opponents can't read between the lines they take everything he says at face value. Nobody said anything about being "more punk" except jon, whom we all know invented the fuckin genre and it just wouldn't go on without him.

It's truly sad that such a well intentioned, harmless(when not provoked), gentle guy like Joaquin can just be slammed into a brick wall over and over again just to satisfy some inner psychologically aggressive personality disorder.(or whatever the reason is you say shit here you dare not say in person...ahem cough...hiding behind a shield...cough...ahem never going to work in the real world mentality...cough....waste of time....). He means well and his methods and work ethic are admirable. He is devoted to what he does.

It may "sound' religious because it's a belief system. What belief system doesn't "sound" like a religion? Ever heard of a band or movie with a "cult" following? Geesh. Lighten the hell up. Read between the lines at what he's really getting at before you start picking them apart under a microscope. Reminds me of how the media thought eminem was a gay basher. STOP JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. By taking words and twisting them and name-calling, it's like people are digging for reasons to be mean.

Jon, you said "I'm more punk than you...."
Ok jon, which is the lie? In another thread you clearly stated you aren't punk. Are you distorting reality just for the sake of having a fight? Please clarify.

It's not even critisism anymore. It's hostile overly aggressive attack. It's not fair to joaquin that he has to explain every little detail of every little thing he says. You people act like you have never spoken to humans before. There are some fucked up people in this world and joaquin is not one of them, nor myself, nor any of you for that matter. Let's just get along for fucks sake and stop arguing about stupid shit. You actually get more accomplished that way.(no really?)

I know how this board works. You can't truly speak your mind without your words getting twisted around and used against you because you are not part of the "group".(whom oddly enough, rarely disagree with one another). I refuse to be a part of that machine. Zach and jon(amongst others) on the other hand...well at least Zach and I are civil to eachother.

Joaquin just think of it this waÿ from now on: ARROGANT PC ELITISM. Have fun with it but never take them seriously.(yes, they hate this!)

....chrisjones has made his move into the ring! We'll be back after this commercial break!

[Nips]

Joaquin just think of it this waÿ from now on: ARROGANT PC ELITISM. Have fun with it but never take them seriously.(yes, they hate this!)

i really dont think jon takes any of this seriously. as you say he just spoils for the arguement. i really amazes me that any of you bite anymore. .. or 'enter the ring' as you say.

as for lumping zach in with jon, theyre really very little alike. not really fair to treat them as a tag team simply cause they both disagree with you... ive suffered the same fate and its doesnt really make sense to me.

[ChrisJones]

i really dont think jon takes any of this seriously. as you say he just spoils for the arguement. i really amazes me that any of you bite anymore. .. or 'enter the ring' as you say.

as for lumping zach in with jon, theyre really very little alike. not really fair to treat them as a tag team simply cause they both disagree with you... ive suffered the same fate and its doesnt really make sense to me.
I have much more respect for bigother than I do for jontoolshedowner. Currently they are both engaged together firing away at joaquin's nuts.

Accusing him of things which he is innocent of but cannot properly defend himself. THAT'S NOT FAIR.

[thebigother]

I have much more respect for bigother than I do for jontoolshedowner. Currently they are both engaged together firing away at joaquin's nuts.
Which I'm doing because I have deep philosophical issues with what he's saying. Jon's doing it because that's what Jon does. People on this website need to learn that multiple people can disagree with the same person without teaming up.

[jonhomeowner]

Ahh the "hazing ritual" One must pass this test before going on the punkforums greatness!!! Starring as usual, the most lovely Bigother and his spandex wearing emo haircut JonHomoPhobe! We are going with full coverage here on punkforums.com! Every debate! Every multi-quote! And yes folks, every smug name you can think of! So grab your dictionaries, history books, english grammar manuals and of course political doctrine read straight from genuine punk lyrics, and let's begin!!!....

So cards are dealt on the table and once again a person is on the defense for speaking their mind. As his opponents can't read between the lines they take everything he says at face value. Nobody said anything about being "more punk" except jon, whom we all know invented the fuckin genre and it just wouldn't go on without him.

It's truly sad that such a well intentioned, harmless(when not provoked), gentle guy like Joaquin can just be slammed into a brick wall over and over again just to satisfy some inner psychologically aggressive personality disorder.(or whatever the reason is you say shit here you dare not say in person...ahem cough...hiding behind a shield...cough...ahem never going to work in the real world mentality...cough....waste of time....). He means well and his methods and work ethic are admirable. He is devoted to what he does.

It may "sound' religious because it's a belief system. What belief system doesn't "sound" like a religion? Ever heard of a band or movie with a "cult" following? Geesh. Lighten the hell up. Read between the lines at what he's really getting at before you start picking them apart under a microscope. Reminds me of how the media thought eminem was a gay basher. STOP JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS. By taking words and twisting them and name-calling, it's like people are digging for reasons to be mean.

Jon, you said "I'm more punk than you...."
Ok jon, which is the lie? In another thread you clearly stated you aren't punk. Are you distorting reality just for the sake of having a fight? Please clarify.

It's not even critisism anymore. It's hostile overly aggressive attack. It's not fair to joaquin that he has to explain every little detail of every little thing he says. You people act like you have never spoken to humans before. There are some fucked up people in this world and joaquin is not one of them, nor myself, nor any of you for that matter. Let's just get along for fucks sake and stop arguing about stupid shit. You actually get more accomplished that way.(no really?)

I know how this board works. You can't truly speak your mind without your words getting twisted around and used against you because you are not part of the "group".(whom oddly enough, rarely disagree with one another). I refuse to be a part of that machine. Zach and jon(amongst others) on the other hand...well at least Zach and I are civil to eachother.

Joaquin just think of it this waÿ from now on: ARROGANT PC ELITISM. Have fun with it but never take them seriously.(yes, they hate this!)

....chrisjones has made his move into the ring! We'll be back after this commercial break!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAWN.

Boring.

[jonhomeowner]

Which I'm doing because I have deep philosophical issues with what he's saying. Jon's doing it because that's what Jon does.
I have issues with what he is saying, too. I find it lacking in the department of "well-thought-out ideas".

[BEERnBRATWURST]

It's truly sad that such a well hung, harmless(when not provoked), gentle lover like Joaquin can just be slammed into a brick wall over and over again just to satisfy some inner psychologically aggressive personality disorder.

It's not fair to joaquin that he has to explain every little detail of every little thing he says.

Joaquin just think of it this waÿ from now on: ARROGANT PC ELITISM. Have fun with it but never take them seriously.(yes, they hate this!)


Is it me, or does it seem like Chrisjones wants to fuck Joaquin?

[jonhomeowner]

I've been thinking that all along, but that last post really beat it into my head.

Why don't you two just fuck already, and get it over with?

[joaquin]

i dont have enough gas money to get to chris's house. maybe suds n' sausage can collect for that one too. dont worry, we'll make a tape and give you the play by play:rolleyes:

chris-thanx.

[joaquin]

such a well hung, harmless(when not provoked), gentle lover like Joaquin

SOMEbodys been peeking!

[jonhomeowner]

i dont have enough gas money to get to chris's house. maybe suds n' sausage can collect for that one too. dont worry, we'll make a tape and give you the play by play:rolleyes:
Damn, that was almost somewhat funny!

[ChrisJones]

I have issues with what he is saying, too. I find it lacking in the department of "well-thought-out ideas".

You find "Well thought out ideas" boring...

[ChrisJones]

Is it me, or does it seem like Chrisjones wants to fuck Joaquin?

I know. You aren't supposed to defend somebody you agree with or consider a friend? I'm not the kind of guy that stands on hold as his friend gets attacked. Are you?

[ChrisJones]

For starters I don't disagree with anything you say but...

Which I'm doing because I have deep philosophical issues with what he's saying. Jon's doing it because that's what Jon does. People on this website need to learn that multiple people can disagree with the same person without teaming up.
People, as in ChrisJones. ok you can say it. You won't hurt my feelings.

I've been working with promoters and bands since I was 15, playing in bands since I was 16, written for zines, ran websites for the local scene, and done a whole bunch of other things that make people go "Holy shit, you have punk cred!" I've been involved with various activist groups in various capacities (that's as much information as you'll ever get on that aspect of my life, since I don't want to incriminate my self or anybody else). Also, encase you haven't noticed me talking about it for the past few months, moved across the country to start a new life from scratch because I was tired and unhappy with the way mine was playing out back home. If that's not acting on your beliefs and desires, I don't know what is.

By stating all of this you attempting something which you said was stupid and pointless. Are we biting the apple, eve?

Who died and made you the punk rock policy maker? You're so self righteous it makes me sick. You represent every thing I hate about punk rock, people who use "not selling out, man" and "doing this shit for real!" as legitimacy for creating a thinly veiled set of rules on how to be a punk.
This is about where your logic train drove off the tracks and into the river, killing all brain cells onboard. Once again the filter of the internet at work. These words are completely unfounded. You jumped to serious conclusions about somebody you don't know based on hearsay and your own personal issues. Conclusions, which I can say from my experiences with Joaquin, are dead wrong.

You might as well have said the sun rises in the west.

Yeah, you are that wrong.

It's reason and judgment like that that hurts innocent people.
Sorry pal, punk rock may be a lot of things, but it is most definitly not a religion. If things panned out a little differently, you'd be a born again christian.

I'd like to know what makes you so damn knowledgeable over the other guy. If punk is what you make it to be, can't it be a religion? Now you've decided to draw a line at what is and isn't punk.

According to the US government it isn't a religion so don't even go there.

"the sun rises in the west." hmm that's my new quote.

[jonhomeowner]

You find "Well thought out ideas" boring...
No, actually, I do not.

[jonhomeowner]

I know. You aren't supposed to defend somebody you agree with or consider a friend? I'm not the kind of guy that stands on hold as his friend gets attacked. Are you?
Man, it wasn't that you were defending him, it was that, while defending him (and seemingly kissing his ass like you were in love with him), you added that he is "well-hung".

[ChrisJones]

:: opens up lid on garbage dumpster labeled "jon's bullshit"....oh wow:::

Time to call for a pickup!

[ChrisJones]

Nope. I'm not part of the punk scene. That automatically makes me better than a lot of people.

yawn

[jonhomeowner]

:: opens up lid on garbage dumpster labeled "jon's bullshit"....oh wow:::

Time to call for a pickup!
My bullshit? You practically sucked his cock, metaphorically. And then, on top of that, you wrote that he is well-hung.

You wanna fuck him... Just admit it.

[ChrisJones]

My bullshit? You practically sucked his cock, metaphorically.
Defending somebody is sucking cock. Yeah you said this already. Besides I acknowledged this thought, though not from you directly. I know you cherish your "jon" time. Must be jealousy. let's try opening the eyes and reading next time, okay bub?

And then, on top of that, you wrote that he is well-hung.

Hmm another weak denial of reality for sarcasm. I'm sensing a theme here. hint "weak"...

You wanna fuck him... Just admit it.
Nope. Although I question your sexuality because you bring it up so much.

[jonhomeowner]

Defending somebody is sucking cock. Yeah you said this already. Besides I acknowledged this thought, though not from you directly. I know you cherish your "jon" time. Must be jealousy. let's try opening the eyes and reading next time, okay bub?
It's not that your comments were defending him, it's that they seemed to be in worship of even the ground he walked on.

Nope. Although I question your sexuality because you bring it up so much.
I don't care about your sexuality, I care that you want to fuck him.

This is not very different than when you kept saying "Why don't you two just fuck already" about Marina and I.

[thebigother]

For starters I don't disagree with anything you say but...


People, as in ChrisJones. ok you can say it. You won't hurt my feelings.
Contrary to popular belief, the universe does not revolve around ChrisJones.

By stating all of this you attempting something which you said was stupid and pointless. Are we biting the apple, eve?
No. He asked me a direct question, "what do you do," so I answered it. I usually answer question people ask me them. And even if I did bite a little bit (which I still maintain I didn't), it's not all comparable to Joaquin's post. It seems like every other post of his is either about how depressed he is or how much he loves being punk rock forever.

This is about where your logic train drove off the tracks and into the river, killing all brain cells onboard. Once again the filter of the internet at work. These words are completely unfounded. You jumped to serious conclusions about somebody you don't know based on hearsay and your own personal issues. Conclusions, which I can say from my experiences with Joaquin, are dead wrong.
As I've said many times before, until I meet somebody in real life, I couldn't care less what they're like in real life. Since I only him through these forums, I only care about how represents himself on these forums. I don't know what it is about you two, always having to put everything into a bigger context. It makes any sort of logical discourse impossibe because you keep trying to turn discussions into things that they aren't.

You might as well have said the sun rises in the west.

Yeah, you are that wrong.

It's reason and judgment like that that hurts innocent people.

Oh boo fucking hoo. Go call a whaaaambulance if people are getting so hurt. Somehow the world keeps on spinning.

I'd like to know what makes you so damn knowledgeable over the other guy.
I've never claimed such knowledge. Everything I post here about other people is in reference to what they have posted on these forums, because that's the only way I know them. What is so hard to understand about that?
If punk is what you make it to be, can't it be a religion? Now you've decided to draw a line at what is and isn't punk.
Punk rock is a paradox. The only rule is that there are no rules. So even though the only rule is that there are no rules, it is still a rule none the less. There is no real definition, yet somethings fall outside the definition. Punk is and Punk isn't. My point is that punk rock philosophy continually negates it's self, making the only real way to be a punk by transcending it and not worrying about all those silly rules, because they don't mean anything anyways. They're just a superficial as any other set of rules.

According to the US government it isn't a religion so don't even go there.
WTF?

"the sun rises in the west." hmm that's my new quote.
And it will serve as reminder to all about how silly you are.

[ChrisJones]

I don't like seeing you making false accusations against somebody for something that they can't prove because they are "online"

Yes you were definitely referring to me or having some sort of sub-concious reference to the post I made right before yours.

You should have refused to answer that question if you believe it's so terrible to rant on about your accomplishments in life online.

Some folks aren't as detail oriented as you are. You need to relax and read between the lines. Yes, this makes words and sentences have more meaning than just scribbly lines of text, grammar, and dictionary definitions. It's an essential skill involving learning to read what people are actually trying to say while ignoring the little things and focusing on the bigger picture.

I am silly.
haha you got that right. One of your judgments is good.

Damnit if the world revolved around me everybody would be happier I can assure you of that. I took economics for a reason.

[ChrisJones]

It's not that your comments were defending him, it's that they seemed to be in worship of even the ground he walked on.

Wow, way to keep growing this molehill...


I don't care about your sexuality, I care that you want to fuck him.

This is not very different than when you kept saying "Why don't you two just fuck already" about Marina and I.
Are you on drugs?


::takes boot off of jon's face:::


You can speak now.

[thebigother]

I don't like seeing you making false accusations against somebody for something that they can't prove because they are "online"
Since it's only ever in reference to their online behavior......ah fuck it. I'm just going to get frustrated. I hate repeating myself.

Yes you were definitely referring to me or having some sort of sub-concious reference to the post I made right before yours.
I guess you're right, since your inside my head all day and I'm not and would know these things better than I would.

You should have refused to answer that question if you believe it's so terrible to rant on about your accomplishments in life online.
Answering a question and ranting about your accomplishments are very different things. I'd only ever refuse to answer a question if the answer was incriminating, or embarrassing, and since it was neither, there ya go.

Some folks aren't as detail oriented as you are. You need to relax and read between the lines. Yes, this makes words and sentences have more meaning than just scribbly lines of text, grammar, and dictionary definitions. It's an essential skill involving learning to read what people are actually trying to say while ignoring the little things and focusing on the bigger picture.
Yeah, I know. Expecting people to say what they mean, how unreasonable of me. I mean, why be clear and consice when you can "read in between the lines"?
It's so Stalinist, I love it!

Damnit if the world revolved around me everybody would be happier I can assure you of that. I took economics for a reason.
I most certainly would not be happier. I'd be like this, but times 15 million.

[Cordie]

it sux

[Captain_Obvious]

it sux

Now there's an intelligently biting remark wrought with wit and irony.

[Captain_Obvious]

I know not all of my responces have been filled to the brim with superior elocution, but fuckin' A!

[BEERnBRATWURST]

i dont have enough gas money to get to chris's house. maybe suds n' sausage can collect for that one too. dont worry, we'll make a tape and give you the play by play:rolleyes:


I think your on to something. Gas money would be a far more reasonable amount of money to raise. However Chrisjones better start working on his stamina. I would hate to have you drive all the way out there for a 2 minute pump n' dump.

I know. You aren't supposed to defend somebody you agree with or consider a friend?

But if more than one person disagrees with someone, it's an attack, right?

I think Joaquin was doing fine without your help anyway.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

I'm not the kind of guy that stands on hold as his friend gets attacked. Are you?

Depends, my friends can usually hold their own without my help. Especially when it's a fight/conflict that they decided to take part in.

However if it's a physical altercation with more than one person trying to beat up a friend, I will step in to even up the odds.

[jonhomeowner]

Wow, way to keep growing this molehill...

Are you on drugs?

::takes boot off of jon's face:::

You can speak now.
You can keep making absolutely no sense, if you want. It's okay.

[joaquin]

I think your on to something. Gas money would be a far more reasonable amount of money to raise. However Chrisjones better start working on his stamina. I would hate to have you drive all the way out there for a 2 minute pump n' dump.

as long as theres cuddle time i dont mind. but i see you want to get your moneys worth, so to fill out some time on the video you get we'll put on some cocksparrer and swordfight first. it wouldnt be fair if everybody got too finish but you, and i wouldnt want you to have to keep rewinding.

[ChrisJones]

Since it's only ever in reference to their online behavior......ah fuck it. I'm just going to get frustrated. I hate repeating myself.

You certainly don't treat it as "online behavior". Relax.

Stalinist? What? You are mad!

Let me go back to defending innocent people against oppressive know-it-alls!

[jonhomeowner]

You certainly don't treat it as "online behavior". Relax.

Stalinist? What? You are mad!

Let me go back to defending innocent people against oppressive know-it-alls!
No way. My intelligence and knowledge is superior. You must learn to accept this. Zach is my second in command. We are starting a fascist world government.

You'll soon be put in your place, ChrisJones... You AND Joaquin.

[thebigother]

You certainly don't treat it as "online behavior". Relax.
Feel free to start thinking logically any time now.
I've said several time I'm not concerned with what people are like in the real world unless I know them in the real world.
And since this whole thing started over things that were said online....
ChrisJones loses again.

Stalinist? What? You are mad!
No, I'm dead serious. Stalin was notorious for giving vague orders with plenty of room to read in between the lines. That way when things happed like show trials and gulags and all that other good Stalinist stuff, he could blame it on extremists in the party. Forcing people to read in between the lines is a great to not have to take direct responsibility for anything. Any time you get called out on something all you have to say "You misinterpreted me." It was bullshit when Stalin did it, and it's a bullshit move online too.

Let me go back to defending innocent people against oppressive know-it-alls!
Again, feel free to start making sense any time now. Surely there must be a bit of reason and common sense left in that booze addled brain of yours.

[BEERnBRATWURST]

as long as theres cuddle time i dont mind. but i see you want to get your moneys worth, so to fill out some time on the video you get we'll put on some cocksparrer and swordfight first. it wouldnt be fair if everybody got too finish but you, and i wouldnt want you to have to keep rewinding.

Yes, I agree, pillow talk can be nice.....but I like action in my gay porn. Instead of Cocksparrer, I was thinking The Oppressed, the song "Victim" specifically. Instead of swordfighting, I was thinking the two of you could do some sort of interpretive dance reflecting your constant oppression on the internet forum. You know, mascara running down your face...etc, etc.

[joaquin]

Yes, I agree, pillow talk can be nice.....but I like action in my gay porn. Instead of Cocksparrer, I was thinking The Oppressed, the song "Victim" specifically. Instead of swordfighting, I was thinking the two of you could do some sort of interpretive dance reflecting your constant oppression on the internet forum. You know, mascara running down your face...etc, etc.

how about "work together" instead, done to a village people-esque dance routine? or is that too tame? i know how hard it can be to get excited over imagination once youve ben exposed to the hardcore stuff

[BEERnBRATWURST]

how about "work together" instead, done to a village people-esque dance routine? or is that too tame? i know how hard it can be to get excited over imagination once youve ben exposed to the hardcore stuff



Sold! However, Chrisjones has to be the Indian, or I fold.

[ChrisJones]

Surely there must be a bit of reason and common sense left in that booze addled brain of yours.

I'm not sure I've found that in the world, much less in my own head.

[Oi Velvet]

Just something to bitch about I guess?